Wendy McCallum (01:35)
Hello, welcome back to the coaching edge. It is January, 2026. I'm still trying to convince myself that it's possible that it's January of 2026 because I don't know where the last few months went. This topic today is something I've wanted to do for, I'm gonna say at least two months, but there's been no room in the schedule because I pre-record my episodes and I had it all planned out. And anyway, it's finally time and I'm excited about it. We're gonna talk about why...
Natural curious conversations are actually the best way to sell. And this episode is for anybody who feels like the traditional sales model feels pushy or aggressive or like just completely not like you. This episode is for
I absolutely identify with that. I remember being in a coaching certification where I was told that
under no circumstances was I to let somebody off the call without getting the credit card number. And I remember the feeling that went through my body in that moment. It felt so completely wrong to me, so completely against everything that I stood for, so totally misaligned with who I was as a human. But it was the only coaching I had ever gotten around selling. you know, so I took it away and I tried to implement it. And let me tell you, it did not go well.
And since that experience, I have spent so much time learning about what actually works for me in sales. Now, if you listened to the episode at the beginning of this month where I talked about the importance of being responsive and flexible in the beta mindset, your sales process is another place in your business where your sales mindset, your beta mindset, I'm sorry, is going to really, really serve you. This is like a great, great place to apply that, you know, test.
learn, iterate, retest philosophy that is the beta mindset because what works for one person is not going to work well for another person. Now I'm doing this episode because in my experience and I have a lot now of supporting other coaches who are building their businesses, the majority and I mean the vast majority of coaches that I work with with say this is an area where they feel underconfident. This is an area that creates anxiety for them.
This is an area where they think they know how they're supposed to do it and that doesn't feel good to them. So I wanted to talk about this in a podcast episode because I don't think I've ever talked directly about selling. So I'm gonna do it today. And I'm gonna tell you what works for me, but I'm also gonna tell you, give you a new framework for looking at.
sales in 2026. And I really I'm excited about this. I want to see how many of you take this away and start focusing on this as the cornerstone of your the sales part of your business. You know, we're talking when I talked about the Compass Framework for Business, I said that the South and the Compass, we talked about the North, the South, the East and the West in your business. The South is really the sales process. And so
What if what I talk about today becomes the thing that you work on in relation to the South part of your business in 2026? I would love it if you do take away something new from this episode. If you send me a note and let me know that I love hearing from my listeners. You can always email me at wendy at wendymcallum.com. I would love to know like what resonated with you. Maybe you hated it. Tell me that too. But hopefully you're going to get something new from this conversation.
today, even though I'm the only one talking, this is really an example of a conversation, which is what we're going to be talking about today, you're going to get something from this and it'll change the way you think about selling going forward. My goal is to help you really embrace and find and embrace a way of making offers and inviting people into your world that feels so aligned for you, so comfortable, so non-salesy, so not pushy, just genuinely good.
I can tell you that I regularly get feedback from people who say, I decided to join because you weren't that person. Or I've interviewed with a couple of different coaches and your approach is so refreshing. The fact that you are giving me time to think about it and decide. The fact that there was no sales push in this, that you were just, we were just engaged in a conversation. That's actually the thing that helps me sell the most.
is my non-salesy sales approach. Okay, so it can work guys. You get to abandon altogether whatever you've been taught if it doesn't feel good to you and you get to start fresh in 2026. Okay, the model that I was trained in is largely a patriarchal male model of sales and it is pretty pushy and pretty aggressive and pretty like close the deal at all costs. That is the model that did not sit well with me. Instead,
I embrace a more feminine, relational, and intuitive version of sales. And that's what we're going to talk about today. What we're going to talk about really today is the idea that what we want to start with is connection to start conversations. So connection leads to a conversation, which leads to eventually clients. Okay. But really we're going to focus on today is starting those conversations. So most of the coaches that I support inside the BBB,
when they come in, tell me that they have a problem with sales. This is probably the most common area where people feel like they are not doing well and they need some support and help and they need to really push themselves. But the truth is, that most of them actually have a conversation problem. So it's not a sales problem. It's a conversation problem. They are not starting enough conversations. They're just not talking to enough people. The foundation of your entire sales model is conversations, not pressure.
So sales for you as a coach is all about conversations, not pressure. How does that feel when I say that? Do you feel a little lighter when I say that? I know I feel a little lighter when I say it. It's not about pressure. It's about starting conversations. And conversations are really just all about doing the things that you already gravitate towards as a coach. You're probably naturally curious. Most coaches are curious and really good at staying in a curious place when they're coaching people.
Conversations are an opportunity to get curious and to connect and to care to show that you care not a place for scripts or formulas in terms of selling. No one ever feels sold to when they feel heard or helped. I'm going to repeat that because I think that's really important. No one ever feels sold to when they are feeling heard and helped. So focus on hearing.
and focus on helping in your conversations, the sales part is gonna naturally flow. And we're gonna talk about this. It's not gonna flow from the first conversation. The first conversation has nothing to do with sales. And today we're talking about how to have the first conversation and all the different places that you can actually start conversations, all the creative ways that you can be having more conversations, which means more connections and more eventual sales. A conversation is just a conversation.
It's not a pitch. A conversation is not a pitch. It is not a conversion event. So keep listening, because this is a safe podcast episode. This is not about converting. This episode is about starting conversations. When you focus on conversation instead of conversion, connection happens naturally. And connection is what eventually sells coaching. Okay? So conversations...
create this connection and connection eventually will lead to referrals or sales. Okay. But again, for today, we're just talking about starting the conversation. cause you probably have a conversation problem, not a sales problem.
Most coaches assume that they need to be, I'm putting this in air quotes, good at sales. Okay. Which means in their minds, they need to be really confident. They need to be closers. They need to be like smooth talkers and really good at like high pressure pitches, know, scarcity, all the stuff we got taught. But the thing is, is that your audience, if they're anything like mine, and I'm guessing they are because like attracts like, they actually value trust, ease and authenticity.
They don't want to be sold to just like you don't want to be sold to and they don't want to sell that way either. Right. So people just generally speaking, I think the whole like attract likes like thing is an important thing to remember as a coach with a business. I attract people who like me. If you're here, it's probably because you like hanging out with me for half an hour and you learn some good things for me and you like my vibe. Right. And therefore.
what goes for me probably goes for you. I don't like being hard, hard sold to, I will walk away so quickly. I know when it's coming and I will get off the call. I really, really dislike it and you probably do too, which means your clients who are attracted to you because like attracts like they probably feel that way as well. Conversation based sales. What we're talking about today is relational. It's not transactional. And I think that's really important. This is about building relationships, not about
affecting or completing transactions. Okay. It is intuitive, it is authentic, and it is driven by curiosity. It allows you to show up exactly as you are and have a curious conversation, which is probably a natural strength of yours as a coach anyway. It is really based on the things that we get taught in our coaching training and certifications around like good listening and mirroring and asking good questions.
All of those things are part of this conversation-based sales model that I'm talking about. Now, a conversation, as I said earlier, creates connection, and connection is what leads you to the clients, which is why these conversations are so important. I think that a good, meaningful, curiosity-based conversation is going to build trust. It's gonna build trust a lot faster than a lot of other types of communication will, and it...
It builds a feeling of safety for people which opens up the door for them to inquire about the coaching because they don't feel like they're going to be given a hard sell on it, right? When you chase the sale, you force, you really force connection and you lose it. So if you're looking for the sale, when you start a conversation, you're going to lose the connection really quickly. But when you chase the connection, when you're looking for that connection in the conversation,
you eventually gain the sale. So I really, really, really want you to let go of the idea that you ever need to be selling and instead start leaning into this idea that you just need to be having conversations and you need to be having a lot more of them and you need to be having them with a lot, with a bigger group of people. And we're gonna talk about how to diversify your conversations as I go through this podcast. So, and I also want you to remember that.
A first touch conversation, like the first time you talk to somebody, it is not the time to talk about your offer. So take the pressure off yourself. You're not even going to mention your offer in the first time you talk to someone. This is the time to make somebody feel seen, feel heard, those things that help to build that like no trust. If the primary goal of the conversation is to sell, it's going to feel like selling and it's going to feel like selling on both sides. If the primary goal is to connect,
then the sale's gonna happen later naturally. Okay, so I've already said that a few times. I just wanted to remind you of that. Let's move into the importance of making conversations an actual formal structured part of your business model. This is the idea where you really normalize the idea that conversations are not bonuses, extras, nice to haves. They're actually a part of your business model. They're essential.
They are part of your marketing, they are relationship building, they widen the top of funnel. So they're really important when we're talking about the north part of your business, which is your top of funnel section. That's where people, how people find you, your visibility. They're important when it comes to conducting research, getting feedback, staying in that beta mindset we're talking about all the time and really gathering good, useful data. You have to have conversations for that.
They're important for sales as we're talking about today and they're really important for retaining clients, keeping clients in your world. So I really want you to encourage conversation in your business. I want you to be thinking of conversation starting as a skill, as a practice, as like a metric, just like any other thing that you might measure in your business as a measure of success and as a system. The system part is really important. I want you to systemize
Is that the word? Systematize, systemize conversation in your business. I want you to create a structure to ensure that it is happening in a perfect world every day, okay? So I'm doing this in the BBB with my coaches. I'm encouraging them to incorporate conversation as a regular part of their business model and to really try to create systems and habits around starting and continuing conversations. And my coaches are doing that in different ways. I have...
coaches who've created spreadsheets where they list all of the possible people that they could have a conversation with. And they might have, you know, different categories of people. And we're going to talk about those in a second and then specific names underneath those. And then a place where they, you know, indicate that they have started that conversation and maybe a little summary of what the conversation entailed and the date that it happened. So I have coaches who do this all on the spreadsheet. If you love a spreadsheet, this is the great, great place to start a spreadsheet.
I have some clients who, some coach clients who gamify it, who are like, my goal is to have like, to start 20 different conversations this week. That can be really fun. I have clients who track like, like I said, their conversation starts, but also who are paying attention to where the movement is. So they're looking at the other end of it and they're tracking conversations all the way through and seeing how those conversations are eventually leading to.
direct revenue or referral revenue. Okay, so I want you to create some structure around this. Now, this is the fun part and this is really where the gold is I think in this episode. I am going to go through all of the ways that you can start conversations, all the different types of conversations that you can start because when I said, you know, 20 conversations in a week, a minute ago, I'm guessing that you probably thought to yourself, what the hell, how am I gonna have 20 conversations next week?
I'm gonna show you how now. I'm gonna talk you through all the different ways you can start conversations. And I think by the end of this, you're gonna be thinking really differently about this whole idea of conversations. And if you sit down and do a little work, I'm guessing you're gonna be able to come up pretty easily with 20 different places you could start a conversation this week. So my first and my favorite place to start conversations is with past clients. So these are people you've already worked with. They already like No Trust You.
They absolutely believe in your value because they've had a great coaching experience with you, but you haven't had a conversation with them for a while. Reach out to them. Look at your list of past clients, whether those are group clients or they're one-on-one clients, and send a message to them. Now, there are different ways to send messages. Of course, you can always default to a text message, so sending an email to somebody or sending them a text or sending them a written DM.
But I love the more personal ways of communicating. So I love voice notes and I love loom videos or little videos for people that are personalized. So you could reach out to three past clients and you could say, hey, I was just thinking about you. I haven't heard from you for a long time. Or you came up today as an anonymous example of how this particular strategy that I was...
teaching to a client, you know, plays out in real life or I used you today as an example of like really, really inspiring example of how people can make change or whatever it is. Reach out to them in a personal message.
If you can record a Loom video, if you don't know what I'm talking about with Loom, just go and search for Loom, L-O-O-M. It's a way to record really short videos and send them directly by email to clients and the platform actually hosts the videos. And I think you can save up to 25.
five minute or less videos at a time, then your clients just log into the platform to watch the video. Anyway, I use Loom all the time, or you can send a voice note depending on how you're communicating with them. I love that though. know, just I'm thinking about you and I'm wondering how things are going. That's the beginning of a conversation. The other thing that you can do is you can reach out to people who follow you on
social media platforms. I love doing this with new followers, so I always check the profile first to make sure the new follower is not a bot, obviously. But if I see that there's somebody who has landed on my page for legitimate, authentic reasons, like for example, they're on my Wendy McCallum coach page on Instagram, and they're clearly a coach, and they're not a coach who's trying to sell me something, because that sometimes happens too. I'll send a voice note and I'll say, hey, I just saw that you found my page, I'm so glad that you're here.
I'd love to know little bit more about you. Maybe if you have a second, you could send me a note back and let me know where you live and what area you like to coach in and where you are in your business. Or thanks so much for following. I really try to create content that is actually helpful to the people who follow me. Is there anything in particular that you followed me for? Are you looking for support in any particular area? I'd love to know. Just send me a quick note back. So that's a way to engage.
Re-engage maybe if you've had somebody who was a follower for a long time and it's kind of dropped off and you haven't haven't heard from them for a while you can send them a note and say hey I haven't heard from you for a while you used to always comment on my posts, but haven't seen you, you know, just curious what's going on? Are you still coaching or are you still whatever? So those are three ways that you can do it. I've got a lot more so bear with me here. Freebies so your free resources your lead magnets. Why not reach out personally when someone
decides to download your free masterclass. Send them a loom video. Hey, Sarah, I noticed that you downloaded my free masterclass. I'm wondering what your favorite part was out of it or what were the things that for you really landed or resonated in that? Is there anything that you have questions on? Just send me a note back if you have a question. I'd love to help you or whatever. I know that that probably feels like, wow, that's a lot. But actually, that could be.
the way that you warm that person up so much faster, right? You are moving them through the funnel faster by starting the conversation. They've come in, they've gotten your free download or you've watched your video or whatever your free resource is. Now they get a personal email from you saying thanks for doing that and it actually calls them out by their first name and it's clearly not a bot. That feels really good to them. You can also reach out and start conversations with
you're like super fans and you know who those people are. Those are the people who always comment on your posts on social media, for example, or the people who always respond to your newsletters or who actually reach out and take the time to send you a note and say they love that podcast episode that you did. Those people, even if they're not your clients or they're not good candidates for your coaching, they are often great referral sources. Start with gratitude. Thank you so much. my gosh.
You don't know how much it means to you that means to me that you always comment or that you take the time to send this feedback. That is so helpful to me. And just start the conversation and see what comes from it. People will almost always write back when you do a really personal outreach. Sometimes they don't respond if you just send them a text note or whatever. But when you send a video or a voice note, in my experience, people almost always respond and the conversation starts.
The other people that you can reach out to are potential referral sources. So you can make a list of people in your community or online who are serving maybe a similar audience as you, a similar client base, but they're doing something different for them. So for example, when I was doing coaching, a lot of coaching around burnout and alcohol and wellness, I had a couple of general practitioner doctors who referred to me regularly. I also had people who had coached with me in the past who managed like big teams of people.
who would refer their employees to me. So who are your potential referral sources? Who wants to see you succeed or serves a similar audience but can't solve the problem that you solve and might be a good referral for you? Reach out to them. Hey, I noticed that you're doing this work. I'm really curious about what you're doing and I'd love to have a quick chat. Would you be open to getting together for a coffee and a 15 minute Zoom?
And then when you get on the call with them, that's when you start the conversation. Again, it's really curious and you say, tell me more about what you do. And then you tell them what you do. And you say, I'm curious. Like if this particular topic comes up with your clients or patients or whatever it is, how do you support them in that? And is there a gap there? Is there something that I could do to help you fill that gap? Right? It's just a curious conversation. You're not trying to sell them anything. Potential collaborators are also great people to reach out to. So
Who could I do something together with that might lead to eventually some conversions in sales? So, or bring more people into my world. Could I do an Instagram live with somebody, for example, who has a similar audience to me but works in a different niche? Or might there be somebody who I might wanna bring onto my podcast, for example, to have a conversation with that would then could then become
a collaborator. So potential collaborators include people like podcasters, other content creators, other coaches, wellness pros, therapists, HR people, depends what what world you work in as a coach, but identify those people, reach out to them, start a conversation with them. Here's one that people are like, ding ding ding, this is so easy for me. Your existing newsletter list is a perfect place to start conversations. So
Asking a question at the end of your newsletter, making it simple, keep it simple, and asking people to reply, just hit reply and answer, can start conversations. Several people will reply. People always reply when I do this in newsletters, especially if I say, just give it to me in one sentence or less, because it takes the pressure off them. Or even one word, what's the thing this year that you're working on? Or what's the biggest mindset block that you have? Or,
what's the one thing you wish you had a roadmap for right now? Or if you could wave a magic wand and give yourself one thing, what would that be? Like asking really pointed questions like that, that naturally flow from whatever you're talking about in your newsletter or whatever story you're sharing. And then asking people to reply is such a good way to start conversations. I can think of several examples of people with whom my relationship started.
as a result of them responding to a newsletter and a conversation starting, which eventually led them to me eventually saying to them, my gosh, I've got like a really good resource for that here, use this link and go grab that math, this masterclass that I give out for free, which then led to them coming to an open house, which then led to them joining the BBB, for example, right? So the newsletter replies are warm.
Those people are already in your world and you are warming them up and they may actually be super warm. And if they're sending you a reply, they feel comfortable with you. So those are warm leads and you need to respond to that. And that will lead to some dialogue and conversation. You can also start conversations or restart conversations with people who inquired about your coaching services or your programs, but then kind of disappeared or didn't convert. So for example, you can go back and look at
discovery calls that you had with people where it didn't convert. If it was a good call and you would have loved to work with the person, but you haven't heard from them and it's been a few months, you can send them a note and say, hey, I was just thinking about you. I remembered our discovery call and how you said that you were feeling challenged with this. I'm hoping that things have shifted for you, but I'm curious, like, how's that going? Right? That can be a good way to start a new conversation. And it also opens up the door for someone who's feeling like, I'm embarrassed.
I should have just signed up for the coaching, but I thought I could solve this problem myself, but then I couldn't solve it myself and now I'm embarrassed to reach back out. It opens up the door to that conversation and maybe to them actually deciding to work with you. Also love this one, sending a note out to somebody who's just killing it. And you're just like, I just think you're so awesome and I love the work that you're doing and I just really admire you. That's a great way to start a conversation. I love to do this because I believe in supporting other.
business people, especially have a soft spot for female business people. And I will regularly send notes to people and say, you're killing it. I love what you're doing. I obviously do this inside the BBB as well. I follow all my coaches on social media. And if they put out a post that's really cute or they, can tell they've put effort into a reel and it's really engaging. I'm gonna send them a personal note and say, good for you, right? Or if I see them out there pushing themselves a little bit to make the offer to talk about the thing that they're,
maybe makes them a little bit anxious, I'll send them a note and say, good for you, that's amazing. So that's me really nurturing existing clients in that situation. But conversations are also important when it comes to nurturing your existing clients, because those clients who are already buying from you already have invested in you as a coach, those are your most valuable clients. They're the ones who when you have the next offer, the new thing available, they're gonna be the first people lining up for that. So you can...
reach out to people you don't know who are doing things that are cool, or you can reach out to people who are already in your world and tell them that what they're doing is cool. Okay, so what I am going to recommend, so that was like at least 10 different ideas of ways that you could start conversations, I'm gonna recommend that you really focus on starting three new conversations a day. And I want you to track it for 30 days.
and then I want you to see what the ripple effect is. So three conversations a day for 30 days. All you have to do is start them, okay? Now, I also want to remind you, and I don't think I talked enough about this, but like, not everybody is gonna respond, okay? So I have this like one in five rule with it, where I say like, if one in five people respond, that's success. And that tends to be how I measure success. Not that like everybody is going to respond, but that...
you know, one in five people will respond. Many messages are going to go unanswered. That is not a failure. It's just numbers. remember that sales, especially this type of sales that we're talking about, natural, organic, sales that feel good to you and that actually lead to authentic connection, that is a long game. It is not something that happens right away.
So if one out of five people reply or one out of six people reply, that is success. Okay, so I want you to start doing that. One of the mantras that I use around conversations is this, if someone pops into my mind, I reach out. Like it counts. And it could be anybody in my orbit who is in any way connected to my business, either someone I have worked with, someone I'm working with now, somebody I wanna work with.
somebody who I think is doing something cool. If someone pops into my mind, I will send them a note then and that counts as a conversation. every everything counts guys. There's so many ways to do this, but try try three new conversations a day for 30 days and see how that ripple ripples out. And I really want to encourage you this year in 2026 to start measuring conversations instead of clients signed.
The clients that you bring in, that's going to take care of itself if you're having enough conversations. That's the truth of it, right? So what if your number one sales strategy for 2026 was just connecting with real humans instead of selling a certain amount of stuff? What if you focused on that metric instead? How would that feel and what might happen? Again, beta mindset. What happens if I shift this this year? How does this change things for me? How will I know? The only way you're going to know is to go out there and try it.
But I can also tell you that you can trust me. I would not steer you wrong around this. This is the basis for everything that I do. It is having conversations. It is staying curious. It is getting out of sales mode. I am not thinking about selling when I am talking to people. I am thinking about listening. I am thinking about hearing what they're saying and being responsive and asking the next obvious question, right?
I am thinking about building relationships. I am not thinking about transactions. I have been doing this for long enough that I know that I don't have any control over when someone buys. Yes, I could bring in some of those like crazy aggressive tactics, know, scarcity or, you know, crazy slash prices, stuff like that. But like, at the end of the day,
A person's gonna buy when they're ready to buy. And I don't have control over that. But what I do know from over 15 years of doing this now is that every conversation that I start...
is a potential lead customer or referral. And that those conversations eventually always, not always, but a lot of them end up paying off in a way that is so cool and so surprising. I'll have people call me and I'll say, how did you find out about me? And they'll say, well, you know what? I met you at this thing. You probably don't remember, but you did this talk at this thing years ago. Conversations work. And like I said, at the beginning of this episode,
I have had so many people say, I love the way you do non-salesy sales. Like people notice it. I love the fact that there isn't high pressure. I love the fact that you invited me to get on another call with you if I had more questions. I love the fact that, you know, you were really honest and upfront. I love the fact that you extended that pricing for me because you could tell that I wasn't ready to commit. And those are the things that actually lead people to convert and to actually purchase because it...
It is a reflection of who I am as a human and it builds that feeling of trust with them. So you get to do it this way. If the old way doesn't feel good to you, you get to do it this new way, okay? What if your selling felt more like coaching? Curious, generous and authentic. What if that was how selling could feel for you going forward? I'm telling you it can, it absolutely can. Now,
If you wanna learn how to create a business where conversations naturally and consistently lead to clients, this is the type of thing that we talk about all the time inside the BBB and we practice it together and we build accountability in. Conversations are a core business asset. I hope you have gotten that clearly from this episode. And once you learn how to start them, everything else becomes easier. So I am going to invite you to join me inside the next open house for the BBB. It's happening on January 22nd.
And it's a great chance for us to just get to meet face to face. You will see my non salesy sales in action. You will see me not be pushy. There is no pressure to join the BBB at an open house ever. It is just an opportunity for us to have a face to face, me to put a face to the name and for me to get to know a little bit about your business and for you to get to know a little bit more about the BBB. You'll also get a chance to meet some of the BBB members.
and ask me anything you want about your business. some free business coaching. I would love to see you there. You can join through the link in the show notes. It's just wendymcallum.com forward slash BBB. Love to see you there. And of course, as I have mentioned in previous podcasts this month,
the format of the BBB has changed is now a six month format, which means that the investment for joining the BBB is now under $3,000. So it's a lot less than it was in the past. And I'll be explaining all of that as well at the open house. Have a wonderful week and get out there and start having more conversations. And if you loved this episode or if something resonated with you, send me an email so we can have a conversation.
at wendy at wendymcallum.com or reach out to me through the DMs on social media, Instagram, I'm at wendymcallumcoach. I will talk to you next week.
