Wendy McCallum (01:59)
Hey everybody, welcome back to The Coaching Edge. I'm your host, Wendy McCallum. I've got a really great guest here today. We're gonna be talking about podcast guesting for coaches and beginner strategies and intermediate strategies, maybe even on getting yourself on other people's podcasts as a coach and how you can use that to grow your audience, to network and to build your business. So I've got Jessica Rhodes here today. Hi, Jessica.
Jessica Rhodes (02:22)
UND. ⁓
Wendy McCallum (02:23)
Jessica Rhodes is from Rhode Island, I just realized, which made me giggle. And Jessica is the founder of Interview Connections, the world's first podcast booking agency, which was established in 2013. Since its inception, the agency has booked over 30,000 podcast interviews for more than 800 clients, solidifying its reputation as the leading podcast guesting agency.
Jessica is passionate about helping online entrepreneurs leverage podcast guesting to expand their networks, establish thought leadership and attract ideal clients. The interviews she and her team have booked have helped clients generate millions in sales, sell thousands of books and make a transformative impact. So we're gonna talk today about how you as a coach in the early years probably of your practice or maybe you're a coach who's been doing this for a while but has not put a lot of thought into a podcast guesting strategy.
how you can create a strategy for yourself to start getting on podcasts that's going to be ⁓ helpful when it comes to increasing your audience, doing some networking and building your business in a way that is not completely overwhelming. Because Jessica, honestly, as somebody who supports coaches who are sort of newer and emerging coaches, the thing that people find the most stressful about podcast guesting is this idea that they need to be...
once they start doing it, they realize, ⁓ half of these, you know, podcast pitch letters I send out don't actually lead to anything. So I need to be sending out an awful lot of these a month to be getting on, you know, even just one podcast a month. So what I want to do is make sure that today when we're talking about it, we're keeping it really realistic for these new coaches who are already juggling like usually a million other new things, including how to build a social media and, you know, previews and lead magnets and trying to build their newsletter list. So we're going to try today to keep it really simple.
and to talk about things you can practically do to start building this strategy. And so maybe we could start, Jessica, maybe you could talk about, obviously you're an expert in this area, why would a coach want to think about guesting on someone else's podcast?
Jessica Rhodes (04:22)
Yeah. So there's this great song. I don't know if you're familiar with Tony Jones, but she does these affirmations songs and she has one called I get paid to be me. And that I feel like really, emulates why it's great for coaches to be on podcasts because really when you're a coach, you're getting paid to be yourself. You're getting paid to be yourself, to authentically, you know, give your advice, to ask the right questions to, you know, people.
Wendy McCallum (04:32)
Thank
Jessica Rhodes (04:48)
coach with you, they choose you as their coach because they relate to your story. They want to be in your presence. They want to calibrate to your energy, get to where you've gotten to. And so when you're a guest on podcasts, you're in a position where you are sharing your story and you're able to demonstrate your coaching in real time, because when you do podcast guessing really effectively, now, of course you're being interviewed and you're answering questions about your expertise and your story.
But a really great podcast interview can turn into a back and forth conversation. I've seen many coaches in podcast interviews. They end up coaching the host, you know, they kind of turn the table around and the host is like, wow, I feel like I got coached in this interview. Sometimes the co or the host will start asking questions, like asking for a friend questions where it's really a question that they're genuinely interested in. want help on. And then the guest who was a coach is able to really demonstrate how they would coach that person as a client. And so it's just the.
best way for coaches to get clients because you're able to give people a taste of what it would be like to coach with you.
Wendy McCallum (05:48)
Yeah, and I see that time and time again. So the coaches again that I support in the BBB and in other programming that I do for new for newer coaches will say that they inevitably get a handful of clients from guesting on a podcast. It's just it's a for sure thing. It happens every single time. And for some of us who have guested on podcasts, we are still I can think of podcast episodes that I did four years ago that I still get clients from. So people are still it was
some of these bigger podcasts with bigger audiences or a podcast that just blew up after I was on it and people went back and started listening to archived episodes and I will still get clients from those episodes. So it is a really, really, I think, easy, once you get the hang of it, a natural way to get clients.
We talk a lot about building like no trust on this podcast and I'm such a fan of video and audio content as the like the best way to do that and long form video audio and content does that better than anything else. So if you can get on someone else's podcast, you are guaranteed, know, depending on the length of that episode, probably between 15 minutes, maybe up to an hour of getting in front of a new group of people, hopefully a group of people who's similar to the audience that you serve.
And really having an opportunity to build that like no trust through story. And I love the idea of like doing some live coaching on the episode as well. Yeah.
Jessica Rhodes (07:08)
Yeah, I love the
long form content because you can leverage that content. You know, typically the host will send you clips or they'll just send you a, you know, a link to the video. And then you can use, you know, Opus pro or, know, a different AI tool to clip it into reels or Tik TOKs. And then you post that up on your social media. So it's also a great way to allow your current audience to get to know you and hear you speak in a way.
you know, you're responding here to hear you respond to questions that you, might not have heard you speak that way when you're just talking directly to them, you know, on social media.
Wendy McCallum (07:41)
Yeah, totally agreed. And another thing that a lot of coaches will do with podcast episodes that they guessed on is they'll use them on their website as a way for people to get to know them better. So when people land on the website, I think especially newer coaches are often very uncomfortable talking to themselves on a video screen, which is what's required to do a like, hey, this is who I am. Let me tell you my story video. And so that often comes off much more naturally when they're being interviewed. podcasts, know, taking clips from podcasts, getting that MP4
from the podcast host and then being able to use that on your website is also a really, really great like added bonus of a great podcast interview. Okay, so the main reason why people would guest on other podcasts is to get clients really. And this is great because it's one of the things we talk about the most in my programming because my new coaches are like, wait a second, they told me this was gonna be easy. They told me I would finish my certification and suddenly have a full roster of clients.
And a lot of the coaches that I support do not have big social media followings or big newsletter lists when they start coaching. And so that stuff, as you know, takes a long time to build up. So this is one of those kind of, even though podcasting is newer, I would put it in the category of old school marketing in that this is you getting out there, making connections and networking. All right, so how does a coach get started? Like what is the first thing a coach needs to do in order to...
⁓ start developing a podcast guesting strategy.
Jessica Rhodes (09:05)
Yeah. Okay, great. So I'm sure your listeners are listening while they're like doing other things, but I would encourage everyone to take notes or to come back to this episode. Cause I'm going to give you some very step-by-step like how to get started and implement this in your business. you know, you really want to write out number one as like a blueprint for your podcast guesting strategy, because it seems simple. Like I'll just get on some podcasts and go get out there. But without the blueprint, you don't have a plan. And without a plan, you don't have, you're not able to really project what results you can get.
Wendy McCallum (09:24)
Thank you.
Jessica Rhodes (09:33)
So the first thing is to just set your goal. And I think we're all on the same page that your goal for podcast guessing would be to get new clients. So the second step is to get very clear on who your ideal client is. Who is your ideal coaching client? What are their pain points? What are their interests? ⁓ Demographic, psychographic, age, gender, are they business owners? Are they, you know, young professionals? Like as much detail as you can about who your ideal client is.
and what types of podcasts are they listening to? Maybe you have a couple of clients, ask your current clients or people you've coached, what types of podcasts do you listen to? are, and then as you have your target audience, your ideal client avatar detailed out, then list out what are all of the challenges that you help your clients with?
So if somebody coaches with you for whether you have like a 90 day package or six months or a year long program, when they complete your coaching program, what are the outcomes of that? What are, what are the testimonials that you've gotten or that you envision getting when you have a really successful coaching relationship? That is then going to allow you to reverse engineer your messaging for podcasts and where you're going to put your messaging is on a podcast one sheet.
The podcast OneShe is a branded PDF that has your bio. It has topics you can be interviewed about and questions that the host can ask you. And these topics and questions should be written intentionally and strategically. So going through the first couple steps of who's your ideal client, what do you help them with, what are the outcomes that your clients get from coaching with you.
That is going to inform what the topics are that you're being asked about. So let's say you're a business coach and you help people build up their business and get more clients. Well, how do you help them do that? One of the interview topics that you're being interviewed about or questions that a host can ask you should set you up to give, to share how you help people and to share what are the strategies, what are the modalities, what are the methodologies that you help your coaching clients with? So I'll pause there and.
Wendy McCallum (11:43)
Yeah, no, no, that's terrific. we talk about one sheet sometimes on here. I think that's a great summary of the one sheet. So you said bio first, then topics you can talk about, then specific interview questions. As a pretty seasoned podcast host now, this is my second podcast. I really love it when people give me the questions. And if people don't give me the questions and I'm actually, first of all, a lot of the time, if people do not provide questions, I don't even.
I'm not even probably gonna respond to be honest. I get so many podcast pitches every single week. If there are no questions and I'm really interested in them, I'm always going to write them back and say, listen, I'll consider you for this podcast, but you have to send me specific questions. The questions are really, really important as a host. I don't want to have to do that. Like I just don't wanna have to do it. And most...
Jessica Rhodes (12:23)
Yes.
Wendy McCallum (12:25)
you know, depending on the type of podcast you have, if it's your only thing and all you do is podcast host, then you're probably spending hours and hours researching and creating great questions and all the rest of it. But I'm not Alex Cooper. Like I'm just, I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to do this podcast along with all the other stuff that I do and support coaches. So if you can send me the questions, that's always going to be super helpful. So I love that outline of a podcast sheet. I love the idea of getting super clear, which is something we talk about a lot of your avatar, the problem that you solve.
Jessica Rhodes (12:35)
Right,
Yeah.
Totally.
Wendy McCallum (12:52)
and making sure that your podcast one sheet makes that really, really clear. And so then now the next question becomes like, how do you send that out? So if you've got that podcast pitch sheet done, it's a one pager PDF. How are you sending, how do you connect with a podcast host? What's the best way to do that?
Jessica Rhodes (13:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so the one other thing I want to add here with the avatar is I would also recommend listing out your potential referral partners because a lot of
Wendy McCallum (13:18)
Jessica,
sorry. Jessica.
Jessica Rhodes (13:20)
Did I cut out?
Yeah? Can you hear me?
Wendy McCallum (13:23)
Yeah, I don't think your Wi-Fi is great. I can hear you now, but you got something happened there. So I'd like to start the answer to that question again, because I'm, is your Wi-Fi signal okay there? Weird, I'm on full bars too, so I don't.
Jessica Rhodes (13:29)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's full bars and I'm in the same room as my router. So that's so
strange.
Wendy McCallum (13:36)
So strange. Okay, well, can we just try the answer to that? Can you just say the one, something I'd like to add piece again and let's just, okay, perfect.
Jessica Rhodes (13:36)
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Yeah, okay. One thing I would like to add first is, before I go into the answer here, is to also list out who your potential referral partners are, because a lot of coaches, you're building up your client base through referrals. So who are the other service providers? Who are the other coaches that are coaching the same people, but on something totally different? Because that's gonna help you with targeting podcasts to be a guest expert on.
⁓ and so then now we get to the outreach phase. You have your topics, your questions, your one sheet. You're clear on, know, the types of shows that you want to be on. It's shows that your ideal clients would be listening to that your ideal referral partners are listening to or hosting. Then you're going to do some research. Now podcast research, is. no.
Wendy McCallum (14:27)
Laurie, I'm so sorry.
I don't know what is happening. It keeps sending me a message. My internet is like solid, but Riverside is sending me a message to reconnect. You're fine right now. I can see you, but we keep stalling out. I have a question for you. Would you be cool?
Jessica Rhodes (14:39)
Shoot. Okay, wait.
Wendy McCallum (14:45)
I don't know how I can edit this together though, I was gonna say. I'm happy to do podcast episodes in Zoom, which is sometimes more reliable when Riverside is struggling, which it's for whatever reason has been this month.
Jessica Rhodes (14:51)
you
Yeah. Closing out
some other apps just in case it's sucking bandwidth.
Wendy McCallum (14:59)
Yeah.
Let's see. mean, let's try one more time. And I apologize, but let's just start. So can you start again with the search checking? Like the first thing is to find other coaches serving a similar audience. And then we'll just see what happens. Okay.
Jessica Rhodes (15:02)
Yeah. No, it's okay.
Yeah. Okay,
wait, back to where I was saying. And so also thinking about what other coaches are serving a similar audience, because if you're a guest on a podcast where the host of that show is a coach, but they do something different and they have your same audience, that they could be referring business to you. So now we're at the outreach phase and
Researching for podcasts, I'm going to say it is what it is. It's, I do this, you my team does this for a living and it is, it can be really difficult, but I'm going to give you some tips and tricks and resources to find podcasts that would be a good fit for you. So the first website that I would recommend using is called ListenNotes. ListenNotes, that is a podcast directory where you can do a bunch of searches to find
podcasts that are in your industry and are speaking to your ideal clients. And some of the things that you want to look for just basic, you know, vetting of the show. Number one, check to make sure that it's an interview based podcast. I know this seems like a really basic thing to check, but I'm sure you know, Wendy, like lots of podcasters who don't even do interviews get pitched and you don't want to be that guest that's sending out a pitch to somebody that doesn't.
do podcast interviews on their show. And it can be tricky because sometimes it'll have the name of somebody in the title and you're like, it's an interview, but they're just maybe reviewing their book or talking about them. So listen to the show, make sure they're currently putting out episodes. They have guests on the show, maybe listen to the show to get a sense of what types of guests are they having on? Because sometimes it's an interview based show, but the host, they only interview their clients. And so it's an interview based show. But if you listen and realize that they're only bringing their clients on,
Wendy McCallum (16:27)
Yeah, yeah.
Jessica Rhodes (16:55)
then it wouldn't make sense for you to go on if you're not their client. So you wanna be vetting the shows, making sure you fully understand what the show is about, research who the host of the show is so you can appeal to them and show that you've done a little bit of research and homework. And so how I would do this is I would research and put together a list of 10 podcasts at a time. Each of these shows, you say, they're hitting the mark, they have guests on their show.
My target audience is listening to this podcast. I believe my topic would bring value. And one little tip there is you can search their website or their podcast feed to see if they've ever done an episode on your area of expertise, because that's something you could say in your pitch. You can say, Hey, I noticed, like, I know your, your target audience is XYZ. I noticed you never did an episode. haven't yet done an episode about, you know, put your topic in there. And here's why I think this would be a really valuable addition to your show. Here's why I think it would bring value to your audience.
⁓ so that's a way that you can have a really customized pitch that shows that you understand their audience. You understand that they've not yet done your topic and then you can attach that one sheet to the pitch email. So you can say, I've already, you know, I've had some suggested interview topics and questions just so you can get a sense of what an interview could potentially sound like together.
So that's kind what you're gonna do. You're research and put together a list of 10 shows. You're gonna send out, the pitch can be relatively templated and tweak it for each show. It doesn't need to be some new novel for each individual host, but you wanna customize it effectively. Always slow down and double check to show that you're not just emailing that says like, dear host name, because I've definitely not in pitches where people did not edit their templates. And I'm like, okay, be more careful people.
It can take a lot of time. The success rate of pitch pitches to bookings can be lower when you're pitching bigger shows. So bigger shows are much harder to book. They're more in demand. Everyone wants a big audience, right? So it's harder to get booked on a bigger show. and so one thing you can do is start small, like go on some smaller podcasts, go on some newer shows that don't have a hundred plus episodes and you know, 50 reviews on Apple, like start small and build your way up.
And then my other tip is to build a relationship with the host before you even pitch them. So maybe you make that list of 10 shows and you follow them all on Instagram. You start listening to each show. You connect with them on LinkedIn. You start engaging in their posts, like authentically, naturally, but just get on their radar and really get in their world. And then once you feel like you really understand them, you can send them a message and say, Hey, I've been listening. I've listened to several episodes of your podcast. I've been following you.
Wendy McCallum (19:23)
Thank
Jessica Rhodes (19:28)
Are you open to a guest suggestion? I have an idea for you.
Wendy McCallum (19:31)
Yeah, that's great. I love
again, as somebody who gets podcast pitches
and so many of them, it is so clear to me, first of all, they're often coming through agents ⁓ and the agents have zero idea what my show is about. They know it's a business, they know it's about business, the business of coaching.
Jessica Rhodes (21:00)
Mm-hmm.
Wendy McCallum (21:08)
but they haven't paid any attention to it. So for example, they're sending me things and they're talking about like how to monetize, like how to get, know, take something and take your group program and scale it to like $500,000 or more. And that is not what I'm about on this podcast. That's not what I'm about as a coach. I'm about getting coaches up to a place where they are making like great money, enough money to feel really awesome about the business that they're running, but also like maintain some balance in their lives. This is not one of those manifest a million dollar year.
podcasts. So it's really clear to me that people have not researched the podcast and I'm immediately going to delete. And honestly, Jessica, this is probably not something I should admit, I don't even respond sometimes. I just find them, I find them so, it's so offensive to me. I'm like, why would I even give you my time in response? Um, so I think, you know, Jessica's on this podcast cause she pitched me guys and she pitched me, but she pitched me a topic that I thought was going to be really helpful to you guys. And that's why I followed up and said,
Jessica Rhodes (21:45)
I don't blame you.
I don't blame you. ⁓
haha
Wendy McCallum (22:02)
Okay. And she provided me with the one page pitch, pitch, ⁓ that we were talking about. Yeah. And it had the questions on it and the questions were good. And the questions were all related to helping coaches build their businesses through podcast guesting instead of just anybody. So it was clear that she knew what the podcast was about and had spent some time on that. now I think you could probably, Jessica, have a strategy where you did a couple of different podcast pitch letters and you probably have this where one of them is for coaches who have podcasts and are supporting coaches. And another one who's for
Jessica Rhodes (22:06)
The one pager. Yeah.
Yeah.
Wendy McCallum (22:29)
you know, people who are retail business owners who are trying to build their business, you know, so you could over time develop versions of your podcast pitch letter that are better suited to different types of podcasts. But in the beginning, I love this idea of like starting to build a relationship with that podcast host. Also, to go back to what you said about starting small. Yes, you have a better chance of getting on a podcast that has a smaller audience.
But the other piece of that that is really advantageous to newer coaches especially is that you are much more likely to be more comfortable with a smaller audience in the beginning. You're gonna do a better job on that podcast. It terrifying for many people to get on a podcast for the first time. It gets easier and easier the more you do it, you get more comfortable with it. But like, I don't think it's a great strategy to try to get yourself on armchair expert when you've never been on a podcast before,
It's not gonna happen by the way
if you had like a super compelling story, but I doubt it. ⁓ I think that this is a really great way to kind of just get your, build your confidence in podcast guesting as well. So think of it that way. Like we talk a lot about the idea of treating everything as a beta. And if this is your first, so like as a trial kind of thing, if this is your first...
go at trying to guest on podcasts. Think of your first year as your beta year in podcast guesting, where you build the systems, you try things out, you get more comfortable doing it. And then you can recalibrate your goals next year and maybe try to get on some bigger podcasts or on more podcasts.
But starting small, think, has advantages for a million different
one of the things I'll say to my coaches is, who do you know who has a podcast?
who's in your existing network? Cause a lot of coaches have podcasts and a lot of my coaches, no coaches who have podcasts. So reach out to them, pitch them something. Hey, what could I do for you? Now it does get a little messy when you're dealing with the same, when you have the same coaching niche. And this is where you have to be strategic. Like you said, you're looking really in a perfect world for coaches or for people who have podcasts who are serving the same audience, but helping them with a different problem. That's like your perfect fit, right?
Jessica Rhodes (24:29)
Yes, I totally agree with that. Absolutely use your same audience, leverage smaller podcasts in the beginning because a big part of monetizing podcast interviews and getting clients is having a message that's honed in, having stories that are really compelling, having a call to action that works. It takes time to figure all that out. You can't figure that out in a vacuum and then just go out and crush Sometimes there's like some overlapping, like we have the same type of clients. Like one example of a client that does neurosomatic coaching, she only does one-on-one.
but she partners up with a company that only has a membership site. And so that's perfect, because they actually help the same type of client, but one has one-on-one, one has group. So you can get in there and see like, how are our offerings, maybe the same type of client, the same topic, but we have different offerings. So you'll attract the people who want one-on-one, you'll attract the people who want a group program.
Wendy McCallum (25:14)
Okay. Are there any pitfalls or mistakes that we need to avoid when we're trying to guest on podcasts?
Jessica Rhodes (25:19)
I mean, the biggest thing is number one, don't be too salesy on the podcast interview. This is not your time to sell. Just really focus on story, focus on value. This is top of funnel brand awareness. So it's not the time where you're going to go right in for a pitch
any type of selling. It's really about just building up visibility for your story. And then the other thing is not being consistent enough because a lot of people will try a marketing strategy for a couple months. They're like, let me dip my toe in the water. Try this out.
And that's honestly the biggest pitfall is that I see with any marketing strategy, but people just don't give it enough time. they don't really hone all the different skills that will impact the success of it. So quitting too soon is a big pitfall because you know, I've, I've seen coaches that do this for the first year, they don't get any clients, but then they keep working on their messaging. They keep working on the types of shows. They keep working on the call to action. And then it pops off once they get all of that in place.
Wendy McCallum (26:13)
That's really great
one of the questions I get asked a lot by my coaches in office hours when they are, they get a guest podcast slot lined up and maybe it's for the podcast host speaks to a similar audience, but a very different niche. And they've got some kind of lead magnet that they've set up and it works really well for their direct marketing to their audience, but they're
Jessica Rhodes (26:30)
Mm-hmm.
Wendy McCallum (26:37)
The podcast host says to them, okay, you can share one, let's just say it's one link, which it often is. So you can share one link and I'll put that in the show notes. And they're trying to decide like, what's the best link for me to share? Should it be my website? Should I create, should I share my existing lead magnet? Should I create some special new free offer thing for these people? Should I offer them a discount or some kind of a sale thing? Like, do you have any thoughts on that?
Jessica Rhodes (27:00)
Yeah, so number one, you can chat with the host ahead of time in the green room chat. So before the interview starts, you can let them know, ⁓ I have a few different gifts I give on podcasts. you know, your audience better than me. Like, what do you think they would value the most? So just getting the host input ahead of time is really, really helpful. And then with the call to action with deciding where to send podcast listeners to, I love a lead magnet, ⁓ a landing page, a way to build up your email list.
But a lot of coaches in the early days aren't doing a lot of email marketing. They're not nurturing their list. so while a lead magnet sounds like a great idea, if you're not effectively converting leads from your email list, then that might not be the quickest way to get clients from podcasts interviews. So if you're early on in your coaching business, you might even want to just say, you know, send me a DM on Instagram. Let me know you heard this podcast and I would love to hear maybe give them one question to answer or one prompt for them to DM you with, or even just the email you directly. Maybe you have a book.
If you're early on, maybe you don't have a book, but maybe that's what got you into coaching. You wrote a book and now you want to get out there and start coaching. You know, maybe give a very simple direct call to action. Cause especially if you're starting with smaller podcasts, you're not going to get hundreds of people flooding your inbox. Like you'll get a couple people from a small podcast that reach out. And then you have maybe a few people that you're in a genuine conversation with over email. That to me is more effective than getting 20 people on your email list that you're like, wait, how do I nurture them and convert them? Like.
Just have people reach out to you directly, maybe for a free discovery session and just build up your client base through just actual relationships and conversations.
Wendy McCallum (28:30)
Yeah, I like that. I mean, I'm kind of of the mindset that if somebody really likes you and your story really resonates with them and you've just got your Instagram handle or you've got your website linked there, they're going to go find you. that's certainly always been the way it's been with me as well. And I just want to take a second to point out something that I believe Jessica did probably knowingly that I want to just highlight because it's a good thing to do.
Jessica Rhodes (28:44)
They'll just reach out, yeah.
Wendy McCallum (28:56)
You're talking about not being too salesy on podcasts and my coaches really struggle with that like what does that mean? Like I have to let people know what I do and I am a huge fan of something that I could just call organic hook marketing I don't know what the actual name for it is. That's what I've always called it Just the idea of building in naturally organic hooks in the conversation just to remind people very quietly of the fact that you do do this thing and you do help people with this thing so you just dropped in something that I like would do if I was guesting on a podcast I might say something like, you know
Jessica Rhodes (29:00)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Wendy McCallum (29:26)
I was working with this client once and they said this, or I helped them like their biggest thing was this, or we use this tool and it really worked for them. So maybe try that out or whatever. Again, quietly not being salesy, not saying come book a discovery call with me or whatever, but just quietly saying like, I actually help people solve this problem and I do it well. And so for you to mention your guest who has like this overlapping audience with it, like whatever the little example was you just gave is an example of that organic type marketing. So Jessica's here, like we all know what Jessica does because I introduced her.
Jessica Rhodes (29:42)
Yes.
Yeah.
You ⁓
Wendy McCallum (29:55)
We know she helps get people on podcasts and that's what she does. But she's not talking about that right now. She's giving valuable, really valuable advice and information to my audience about how to get on podcasts.
Jessica Rhodes (29:57)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Wendy McCallum (30:09)
but she's also reminding us quietly through the course of this podcast that she does do this. And if you need some help with that, you can go and reach out to her, right? And honestly, I think that's the best way to do it when you're on a podcast. Share your story. Some of us have very compelling stories that led us to becoming coaches and oftentimes it's very directly aligned with the niche that we serve and the problem that we solve because we've been through it ourselves. I think that's one of the best ways to do that. But also don't be shy about dropping in like...
Jessica Rhodes (30:20)
Mm-hmm.
Wendy McCallum (30:36)
you know, I was coaching last week or the group. mean, I've already done it a couple of times on this. I mean, it's my podcast, so I get to do that. But just reminding people, oh, I have this community of coaches that I serve, or if you need more support around this, I can help you. Like that's, think, really, there've been a few examples. I just wanted to highlight them for people, because it's hard to explain how to do that to people, but you've done it really well already in this episode. So I just wanted to highlight that.
Jessica Rhodes (30:40)
That's your podcast. You're allowed to. Yeah.
⁓
thank you. Yeah, and it's a balance too. It really takes practice. That's why one of the biggest pitfalls is people stopping too soon because there's so much to learn and there's a lot of practice that goes into it. Like I listen very intently to how somebody facilitates their show, what they say in the green room chat. know, some people like I'm on some podcasts for like real estate entrepreneurs, like, you know, dudes and they're just super, it's a different vibe. And so they're...
Wendy McCallum (31:02)
Yeah.
Totally.
Jessica Rhodes (31:26)
They're much more like, so
how's your service work? And I'm like, great, let's go there, you know? But you had told me, you know, my, like you had told me about your audience and I was like, I'm gonna keep, really pull back on any talk about agency work. Cause that's not where, like some of your listeners are at that. But so listen to what the host says. You're not gonna say the same exact thing in the same way in every show. You need to read the room and listen and respond appropriately.
Wendy McCallum (31:45)
Right. Yeah.
Right. The other thing you said to me before we got on live that I think is worth talking about is that one of the really big pieces of value in podcast hosting is actually not from what you say on the podcast. It's from the conversation that happens with the host before and after the episode records. And I was thinking to myself, well, this is brilliant and we should talk about this on the episode because the truth is I'm your demographic.
So I'm somebody who's been coaching, I've been coaching for 15 years. I've got a couple podcasts, I've done a ton of, I've got a big audience. I'd love to broaden my audience, particularly in this business coaching niche that I've been working on now for the last five years or so, which is newer to my practice. So I am that. So you getting on and talking to me about what you do and us having the chit chat that we've had leads to a really great networking potential opportunity for you.
I'm not committing to anything but I'm just saying. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Jessica Rhodes (32:38)
No, and I was gonna say, just to piggyback on that, it
is a part of my strategy. I get on shows, I get interviewed on shows where the host is an ideal client, and I know we are meeting for the very first time. ⁓ I'm not selling at all. I just show up, I give value, I'm a great guest, and you hear me, you get to know me, the ball is in your court to say, hey, let's talk, or I let it go where it's gonna go.
Wendy McCallum (32:49)
Right. You're not selling. Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica Rhodes (33:03)
But I mean, I know that I've got clients that sign up after years of following me. So when you plan to see that doesn't, you don't harvest it the next day usually.
Wendy McCallum (33:10)
Yeah,
exactly. We talk about that a lot too in the BBB. And I think, you know, the important thing to remember is that if I am thinking to myself, maybe I should be thinking about using an agency to get some podcast guesting, I'm going to think of you because we've had this conversation now, right? So don't underestimate the value of the conversations that you have with the podcast host before and after, because sometimes I've had this happen when I've guested on podcasts, the podcast host has said, my God.
you'd be such a great guest to come in and speak to my membership community. Would you consider coming in, which is something I think is there's so much value in that, because it's an even more intimate group, and you're being directly recommended by the person they already like, know, and trust. So there's tremendous marketing potential there. But it's amazing what will happen in conversations, or what, like, hey, would you consider, I think we could do a really cool partnership, or what if we did an Instagram Live together, or what if we did whatever. There are all these other things that can come from those conversations from podcast hosts, other than just,
the podcast episode itself.
Jessica Rhodes (34:05)
Yeah, totally,
I totally agree. And podcasts are so well connected. Just like you said, if you did consider hiring an agency, I would probably be top of mind because you interviewed me. If somebody comes to you and says, Wendy, you've interviewed a ton of people on your show. Is there anyone that you know that does this? Like if they ask about podcast booking, I would probably come to mind. And then the green room chat is huge. My dad was my very first client. So I learned so much about the strategy by seeing what he did as a business coach.
And in that green room chat, like he's a marketing expert, he's retired now, so he's got like a couple of clients, but you know, like in the green room chat, if he's talking with the podcast host and they need help with marketing, he would say like, I could totally help you with that. Like he, you know, he'd put it out there, so yeah.
Wendy McCallum (34:42)
Yeah,
yeah, no. And I think that that's not something that I don't know that I've ever said that out loud on this podcast before, but I think it's a really important thing to be thinking about. So I love the idea if you're a new coach and you're listening to this episode and this conversation between Jessica and I, and you're thinking, I want to start a podcast guesting strategy this year. I love the idea of you thinking of it as a trial year. I love the idea of you setting some definitions around success that are based on
some smaller metrics for you and maybe not just on like, wanna get this book, this many clients from this strategy this year. I think that comes and if you can commit to it as a long-term strategy like Jessica's been emphasizing, that's gonna serve you a whole lot better. And yes, it's totally okay to hope that you get clients and you will get clients from guesting on podcasts, but I love thinking about like...
Okay, what's important to me about this podcast episode? It would be a success for me if I had some good chit chat, some good banter with the host before and after the episode, that check, got that done. Maybe I didn't have like a brand new lead magnet to offer. Maybe I just threw out my Instagram handle and asked them to DM me, but that's okay, cause I did this thing. Or not that there's anything wrong with doing that, but I think, you know, we set these really high expectations for us. We want to like knock it out of the park in all the categories. Just focus on each time you go on a podcast, improving in one particular area. might be on to try to,
Jessica Rhodes (35:38)
Mm-hmm.
Wendy McCallum (35:59)
build in some client stories into the way that I answer these questions just to remind people of the fact that I do do this coaching thing, or I'm gonna really try hard to get an opportunity in to actually ask the host a question so that we can get maybe some coaching happening on this
At the end of the day,
If you were advising somebody on using podcast guesting as a part of their funnel, what are the top three things that you think they should focus on? I know I'm putting you on the spot because didn't ask you this question in advance, but I'm trying to wrap this episode up with something really useful. What are the top three things that a coach needs to be thinking about if they go away and decide this fall I'm coming up with a podcast guesting strategy and I'm going to start throwing myself out there? Yeah.
Jessica Rhodes (36:27)
Yeah.
Yeah. Number one, put together your one sheet. That's,
that's first and foremost, get your one sheet together. So that way, when opportunities come across your plate, you have a one sheet that you're ready to give to the host of the show. Number two, have an outreach strategy. Maybe you just say two hours every month, I'm going to send out pitches or an hour a week. Just put it on your calendar. If you're not at the point of outsourcing it, dedicate time to it, block it out. So you get some outreach going and you start landing some interviews. And number three, this is a mental thing, but commit to it longterm.
The coaches I've seen that have had the most success, they go into it. They're like, I'm going to do this for next five years. Like, cause I know that speaking works. And so I'm just going to commit to it. Cause there's going to be a lot of things I can do to improve it, but don't go into it saying, I'm to try this for three months. Like that is way too short of a time to have a marketing strategy really be successful. So commit, have an outreach plan and make a one sheet.
Wendy McCallum (37:27)
Love it. Okay, thank you so much, Jessica. I could talk to you forever about this. If people want to find out more about you and what you do, where can they find
Jessica Rhodes (37:34)
if you go to interviewconnections.com, that's our home base on the web. We do a free podcast guesting masterclass almost every month. There's always a banner at the top of the page that says free masterclass. whenever you go there, it's always live on Zoom, super, super valuable. So if you go to interviewconnections.com, you can register for our free masterclass or just kind of listen to our show and...
Wendy McCallum (37:43)
Amazing.
Great, thank you so much, Jessica. It's been a pleasure chatting with you.
Jessica Rhodes (37:56)
Thanks for having me.
