Wendy McCallum (00:38)
Hello everyone, welcome back to The Coaching Edge. I'm your host Wendy McCallum and I have my friend and fellow coach here today, Hana Hein. Hi Hana.
Hana (00:46)
Hello, thanks for having me.
Wendy McCallum (00:47)
I am so happy to have you here because I've been wanting to have a conversation about retreats for a while. This is something that we talk about a lot in the BBB, my business building membership for coaches. We have had many coaches over the last few years plan and host retreats, different types of retreats. We've had online retreats, we've had in-person retreats, we've had retreats people need to travel internationally for, and we've had retreats that are more sort of local and home-based.
And so many of the questions that come up whenever somebody is planning a retreat are the same. And Hana has run so many successful retreats now and knows a lot about some of the pitfalls of retreats and just has some, think, really tremendous tricks and tips for people who are starting to think about retreats. So you may be listening to this podcast and you're thinking like, my gosh, that's so far off. I can't imagine ever getting to a place where I might actually have enough people.
in my world, in my orbit that I could actually plan and host a retreat. Or you may be at a place where this has like always been part of your goal as part of your coaching business. And maybe you've done one, but it didn't go as well as you wanted, or you're thinking about doing one soon. It doesn't matter. I think you're gonna learn a lot from this. Retreats are so freaking rewarding. Like I have hosted them before. They are always just a whirlwind. They're exhausting in the best way. And at the end of it, if you plan them,
properly, I think, and we're going to talk to you about setting up goals around, you know, six, what success looks like in a retreat that's actually achievable and practical and realistic. If you if you do the things that Hanna is going to talk about today, you're going to feel like it was the best part of your year, I think, as a a as a business owner. So they can be so, so cool, but they can also go really, really badly.
So, okay, let me introduce, tell you a little bit about Hana before we get started. So Hana is a Mastery Method Certified Life and Business Coach and 500-hour registered yoga teacher with over 15 years of experience in entrepreneurship. And now she helps purpose-driven entrepreneurs cultivate unshakable confidence, resilience and self-trust so they can expand their visibility, leadership and capacity for selling with courage and alignment.
Retreats, as I've said, are one of Hanna's favorite ways to serve her clients, and she loves to help other coaches, healers, and yoga teachers share this unique experience with their dream clients. And Hanna, where are you coming to us from today?
Hana (03:06)
I
am in Williams Lake, BC. It's a small town in the mountains of BC.
Wendy McCallum (03:10)
I think one of the first questions is like, how do I know when it's time to host a retreat? So just maybe before we get going, to be clear, what we're talking about here in terms of retreats today with Hana is more, less online retreats more
in-person retreats, although I think most of what we talk about today is probably going to be applicable to hosting and marketing and online retreat as well. But we're talking about like the real practical considerations and pieces of planning a retreat where people gather in one spot together. I think one of the things I hear a lot is how do I know when I'm ready, my business is ready, my audience is big enough for me to even consider this lofty business?
idea of hosting a retreat.
Hana (03:51)
haha
Yeah, well, I think first of all, the coach in me is like, is anything that lofty? that there's also like very much like the practical piece of it. I would say first of all, you know, you're ready when you really desire to host a retreat, if that's like an idea that really excites you, and then you can start to ask some of the more logistical questions. step one, you want to host a retreat, something about it excites you, maybe it's the travel, maybe it's the gathering in person.
Maybe you just saw an inspiration somewhere of somebody hosting and you're like, oh, I could picture myself there. In terms of the more on like the masculine, like strategic side of things, I would say that you really don't need a massive audience. there's definitely, I think a myth out there that you need, thousands and thousands
your Instagram to have people engaged enough to
invest with you. But if you've already worked with a few coaching
if you maybe are involved in some things even in person in your community and there's an offline community that you have, if you give yourself enough time
connect with those people and get your messaging dialed for your retreat, then there's really the readiness comes from, you
desiring to do it. And then we figure out like, okay, now how do we wake these people up to make that buying decision with you?
Wendy McCallum (05:15)
Yeah, I love that. think
when I think about retreats that I've hosted or participated in as like a co-host, the people who end up signing up for those are always people, almost always people who you have a previous relationship with as opposed to people who are just on your newsletter list or, you know, in your social media orbit. These are people that you've worked with before they already have. It's a big decision to go do something as personal and intimate as a retreat. And so I think you're absolutely right about that. It's about
Hana (05:29)
Yeah.
We can.
Wendy McCallum (05:44)
pre-existing relationships and building that like no trust. And if you've got eight spots in a retreat and you've worked with 20 clients one-on-one who all like no and trust you, then you may be ready. And I love that idea of like tapping into, does this excite me? Which I think is such a key piece of like succeeding with anything in business is to really do the things that light you up.
Hana (06:03)
Totally.
Wendy McCallum (06:07)
So let's say you decide I am lit up. I'm so passionate about this. I really, really want to do this. Where do you start in the planning process?
Hana (06:14)
Yeah, so I would say once you decide, okay, I'm gonna give this a go. Let's just, let's play with this here. I would start with the vision of the retreat. So you start thinking about what it is that, what is like the transformation that you're wanting to create within the retreat? Who you wanna call in for the retreat? Is there, you know, do you dream of having like a weekend retreat? You know, I would love to just start with like a local, you know, get a local cabin and.
host a retreat close to town, is it, I want to host an international retreat, start to paint the picture of like, what is the retreat that you want to create? And then once you have some of those visions in place, then you can start to explore, okay, now I need a venue, right? Just starting to explore the venue. And this doesn't mean that you have to put down a deposit right away and commit. There's a couple steps that happen before that to start to,
you know, start to see if there is some interest. think you and I had talked about this, but, you know, maybe I'll stop there. Maybe before you even get the venue. Now you have the retreat vision. And then you can start to maybe soft pitch to some of the people that you are warm with, hey, I'm really wanting to host this retreat. Here's what I'm thinking. Here's the transformation I'm, you know, wanting to create in this experience.
And if you have it in your mind that you would love to host it internationally, it's like, and I really want to host it in Spain. What do you think? Is this something that you would be interested in? And so you start to already plant the seed that it's something that you're working towards. And then you can start to explore some of the venues because now you're starting to get those hard cost ideas in that you can start to plan to
build out your budget, right? And this doesn't require, like I say, a deposit down, no money invested yet, but you have to start creating a foundation for a plan.
Wendy McCallum (08:13)
would you like, how would you order the steps in this? So let's say you do that, and you get some good positive feedback from the people that you chat with about it. What do you do next? What's the next, what are the next steps? How do you take it from this idea to actually something that's sellable?
Hana (08:21)
Yeah.
I like to book the venue, right? The booking of the venue is a big event. You know, that's like the big investment in the commitment. So once I booked the venue, I would start to create the messaging around the retreat. And then before I sell, of course, I'd have to price.
retreat and so this requires more more research now that the retreat venue has been booked now you're starting to look at other hard costs
are there like the catering, the food, is it included? Are you getting an Airbnb versus are you getting like a retreat center where they set all that stuff up for you? So you really get to understand all the hard costs. And then from there, before you price, I know I feel like I'm just like bouncing all over the place here, but when you do go to price, I really encourage
people to pick a profit that feels really exciting to
that matches the energy, you know, expenditure that you have not just within the retreat, but thinking about all the work that you're going to be doing outside of the retreat in terms of.
the marketing, the research that you're doing to get all the different hard costs, getting your insurance, getting your own travel, all those things, and then being able to reverse engineer your price based on the profit that you wanna make and the hard costs that are going to be a part of your retreat.
Wendy McCallum (09:57)
that is
so important. I want to spend some time on pricing because and I don't know what the right order is to talk about all this stuff. It's probably no way for us to do it. It's fine. I think it's fine. But I think we need to spend some time on pricing because this is the place where people get hung up. And I have seen what happens on the other side of it when coaches way under price the retreat because they don't take into consideration all of the other.
efforts, energies and hard costs that are associated with that retreat. And then they end up out of pocket at the end of it and exhausted. And that is a completely different experience energetically for a coach than what we want you to have as a coach when you're running a retreat. So the pricing piece of it is actually really, really important. I think there probably are some other considerations that will go into it. So if you're only
Hana (10:32)
Yeah.
Wendy McCallum (10:45)
I would always encourage coaches to have more than one metric for success whenever they're doing anything. So this would apply to whether you're launching an online course or you're starting a podcast or you're going to host a retreat. So instead of just having the measure of success be, for example, the profit at the end of the day, like the net profit,
also be looking at things like number of lives that you're able to impact with this thing. So how many people you can get out there or how you want to experience and feel during the course of the retreat, how you want to feel going into it, how do you want to feel when you're finished with the retreat? What are the other potential benefits of hosting this retreat in terms of other work, starting to gather testimonials about your retreats, being able to mark up future retreats with that. So really like thinking about all of those things as you're thinking about
setting the price.
Does that make sense what I'm saying? Yeah.
Hana (11:33)
Yeah, absolutely.
I love like, you know, building our business from the inside out. So it's always important to have both those inner and outer goals. And yeah, looking at some of, even some of the outer goals beyond the price, right? I can't tell you the number of people who have become my
ticket clients after a retreat. So also thinking about there's return on investment beyond just like them coming to the retreat. So,
jumping a little bit ahead here. That's why it becomes so important to really show up for your, even your one, two, three guests that come when you were hoping for 20, just as you would for all those people and show up with them fully because there's so many opportunities beyond that and the testimonials, all those things, there's so much value that you'll get from this really intimate experience of working with people.
Wendy McCallum (12:21)
echo that every time I have been involved in hosting a retreat it has led to significant business afterwards. Do you find repeat business with in terms of the retreat the retreats themselves? So you have people returning and doing more retreats with you once they've done one retreat?
Hana (12:36)
Yeah, actually I have. have a couple of that like to find me where I am and come to my retreat. for some people that's just, retreats are so unique in that, I mean, there's opportunities to travel and have that really supercharged experience.
And so if that's the way people love to receive support is just once a year, just getting that really concentrated experience and it's, you know, they're not quite ready to do sort of like the more integrated everyday sort of support, then, then yeah, then there's definitely people who come back. Yeah.
Wendy McCallum (13:14)
Yeah. Yeah.
So would you say around pricing that coaches are more likely to under price than over price on retreats?
Hana (13:22)
100 % every time. yeah, definitely. So so
much opportunity to, you know, I think encouraging picking that profit that is a little bit of a stretch and exciting to you, doing some money mindset work around it. If you're having any resistance to charging, like what are you making that price mean about you?
you know, the common thoughts that come up are like, well, people can't afford this. They won't come because they can't afford this. you know, projecting your own money stories onto people. And, you know, and this is why I think just hosting a retreat is such an investment into your, your own growth because gosh, it just shakes up all those things to the surface, right? Cause it's just like another, such a big, big growth edge to invest that much money.
into something and not really knowing how it's going to turn out. So it's a, you'll get a lot of opportunities for personal growth for sure.
Wendy McCallum (14:18)
Yeah. Yeah.
What are some of the things that we can do as retreat hosts and retreat organizers to help mitigate and just to reduce some of the risks that are, you know, might be inherent, especially in like the first couple of retreats that we run. I'm thinking things like, we've already talked about canvassing your, you know, your existing good
clients and loading the idea by them and getting feedback about that. what about things like deposits and sort of garnering, garnering, that the right word, interest through, you know, taking deposits, letting people know that it's going to be based on interest. And if you get enough interest from people, then the retreat is going to go ahead or creating a wait list, you know, before you
provide the details of the upcoming retreat. Like what kind of things can people do to help mitigate risk? Because there must be some things.
Hana (15:14)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that one of the things you can do certainly is to you can start a waitlist as soon as you get the idea, right? You can just start to plant the seed in people and start it's like almost, yeah, you're starting to warm up the audience to something that's coming. You can absolutely create a waitlist. Now you've got this warm audience who are people who are interested in the retreat. Now those are your hottest.
hottest leads, you can offer them things like an early bird price. Perhaps the deposit is like a really easy number to put down But and I would always just I want to like shout it from the rooftops, make your deposits non-refundable because this is this is a financial risk that you're taking, and have those terms and conditions cancellation policies, all that like really, really clear so that if people do
Wendy McCallum (15:52)
Thank
Hana (16:02)
cancel, there's no surprises. So offering the early bird pricing to your hottest leads, making some personal invitations with that early bird price or pre-launch price, whatever, however you want to frame it so that it's like, this is a special price that's available before I go public, right? And just creating that excitement and demand around it.
can definitely help. But I think the power of having the wait list around specifically around the retreat and it might take a few say nurture emails, nurture emails to your existing email, but you're sifting through your existing email to people who are truly excited about retreats, even hotter than just your existing email list. And then once you get those people
you know, once you're connected with that pool of leads, then you can go into your wider pool of leads as
Wendy McCallum (18:31)
I love the idea of the early bird pricing or the pre-launch pricing, offering an upfront collecting deposits, making them non-refundable. And I absolutely echo that, like be super, super clear on the terms with this in terms of your deposits and also with deadlines on refunds or changing your, you know, changing your room details or whatever other stuff you've got.
It's even if there is flexibility built in there, it's difficult as somebody who's organizing all of this to have things changing at the last minute. Like there's a lot, there are a lot of moving parts that go into running a successful retreat. Am I right? it's a bit, it can be a bit frantic. I mean, you get better at them as you do them more and you start to anticipate some of the things. And we're actually going to have Hana come in and talk.
do a whole masterclass on retreats for the BBB coaches in my coaching community, because I think this is one of those things where it'd be easy. It's really easy, especially the first time you do it, to miss some things and get a bit blindsided. There's just a lot of little details in all of this. So the more of it you can get in it sort of committed to in advance, I think the easier it is to plan and to have like a smoother experience for both you as the host and also people who are attending.
Hana (19:22)
Well,
And you're going to have a much higher conversion rate at any stage of the game if you have that messaging really, you know, clear and dialed. And I think always important, I'm sure you teach this, but messaging is always a living, you know, document that is going to evolve throughout your sales process for your retreat. So just making sure that you are a really attentive listener, of your audience.
Wendy McCallum (19:39)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Hana (20:04)
so that you can continue to really dial in your messaging and make sure that you're having, so that your efforts of reaching out to these people have a higher level of efficacy, you know, and conversion that you're not just like, hey, I'm hosting a retreat. Like, let's really paint the picture for these people and have higher converting conversations.
Wendy McCallum (20:17)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So listen
to the feedback, I think is what Hana's saying, like The feedback that you're getting from your audience, the feedback you're getting from conversations, conversations around the retreat. the, you know, what are the places where people are resisting? What are some of the obstacles that they see in attending this retreat? How can you then, you know, deal with those in advance? So
anticipate those and deal with those either in the messaging or in the conversations that you're having. that's a really, really great tip. What are some of the mistakes that people make in messaging? So we're talking about marketing this retreat and the messaging that goes with it. What are some of the biggest mistakes that people make?
Hana (20:58)
I think the biggest mistake that people make is that they really put a spotlight on the logistical parts of the retreat. Like what are the excursions that we're doing? What is the food that you'll be eating? What is the yoga class that you're doing? You know, what is the gift that you're gonna get? What is the house you're staying in? Those all become the hero of the story versus really making sure to make the guest the hero of the story.
really painting the picture of the transformation. And I know some of this can come to like, I always invite those soul checks like, hey, am I not putting myself out there as the guide, the expert guide that can really support these people in transformation and I'm hiding behind all these like glitzy things of the retreat. that really doesn't
support high conversion rates, right? Because people can't really see like, well, this just looks like a vacation versus like, I'm making a huge investment into like an opportunity for transformation.
Wendy McCallum (21:56)
I love that. That's really important. And we talk about this. mean, this whole, the value of the transformation is something that's come up on this podcast over and over and over again. And obviously I talk about it with all the coaches that I support in terms of marketing and selling. Nobody's buying the nuts and bolts. They're just not like people aren't really that concerned with like whether they get a workbook and how many sessions there are. And even things like, will there be eight people in the group or 10 people in the group? And you know, those are not the things that sell what sells
anything as a coach is the value of the transformation. So what is it that's going to change for them? How are they going to feel when they're on the plane coming to this thing? And how are they going to feel when they're on their way home? That's the transformation. And what are the how are they going to feel when they're there? What are what are you promising to cultivate for them in terms of community and connection and those types of things? That's what you want to be focusing on in the messaging as opposed to
Hana (22:36)
Yeah.
Wendy McCallum (22:50)
what Hana's talking about, there'll be two yoga classes a day and you'll get vegan meals prepared by so-and-so. Because that just starts to sound like an all-inclusive vacation. I love that. Can we talk a little bit? Sorry, I haven't prepped you for this question, but it just popped into my mind and it's something that I've this before to coaches planning retreats. I think one of the biggest mistakes that people make organizing retreats is not planning enough downtime, like over-scheduling.
Hana (22:58)
That's right. Yeah.
I'm
Wendy McCallum (23:18)
it's the worst when you go to a thing and there's something, you just get no time to yourself and it starts to feel like, you know, instead of a relaxing retreat, it's actually just like another busy week. It's worse than being home.
Hana (23:28)
Yeah,
you're going to like a university bootcamp. Absolutely. Yeah, do not underestimate the power of space. And I just would invite anybody who's feeling like, my gosh, like I'm not doing enough because I think that's where a lot of those behaviors come from when we start to like over plan the retreat and over schedule the retreat is like, like it's kind of really just pause and check in with yourself.
your presence in the one group circle, you know, the one yoga class a day, with deep presence is going to be enough to elicit an opportunity for integration in between. And honestly, the magic always happens in the space. sitting in the hammock and like reflecting on the conversation, but the people need that space. So
Wendy McCallum (24:17)
And a little lesson in this from co-hosting a retreat with someone a couple years ago internationally was that we had, we didn't actually have, I had done retreats before and I was very sort of emphasizing like, don't over, let's not over schedule and let's not over include in terms of activities, but we had a daily sort of coaching circle thing that we were gonna be doing. And when we got there with the women,
Hana (24:39)
Mm-hmm.
Wendy McCallum (24:41)
It was just so clear that the power was actually just gonna be in the shared conversation and the shared story. And we ended up just ditching it. And everyone loved the retreat. We had such a great experience. was so beautiful and so rewarding. So I guess being ready to be flexible is also really helpful as a host in these things. Yeah.
Hana (24:48)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. On so many different levels because,
you know, yes, in the flow of the retreat and how you're showing up for these, you know, these people that are within your retreat, but also sometimes you had something planned and then it rains and you your chef is sick or, you know, I've had like all these things that have happened to me my gosh, I got to cook for everybody. You know, things happen and so.
One of the really important things going into, now we're going into like now you're at the retreat and unfolding the space is like your energy management, like really being honest with yourself about how you are taking your own downtime and are you like in your room scrolling on Instagram or are you like really making sure you're taking care of your nervous system to be able to hold like, you know, okay, like now we've got this crisis, how do I hold that space?
and make sure that I'm feeling really grounded in, you know, moving, pivoting or whatever, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy McCallum (25:55)
Yeah, yeah, no, that's really important to and another
thing you can think about and I don't know what your practice has been with this, Hanna, but to ask yourself, and it would really depend, I guess, where you're hosting if it's at one of those retreat centers where everything is taken care of. And basically, you don't have to deal with any of the details except your own programming. That's a very different experience, presumably.
than a retreat where there are lots and lots of moving parts. You've got caterers, you've got this and that. I think it can be very helpful, and I have done this myself, to have an assistant there to assist with a lot of the things. And then of course you have to work that into your planning, your budgeting, because you're going to have to compensate that person. It might be that they get a room for free. It might be that you're paying them. But I think that is also a good thing to consider,
Hana (26:24)
Yes. Yes.
I would highly prioritize in your budget having a retreat assistant because it will help you be so much more present. I would say that's the reason why I can be in my magic is because I almost always have a retreat assistant with me so that I don't have to worry if somebody's like, I have a headache. Can you take me to, you know, grab some Tylenol? I'm not doing that, I'm...
In my zone of genius, and I have somebody else helping with some of the other little bits and pieces, which just changes the whole retreat. And you'll come out of the retreat much more energized than depleted yourself as a leader if you have that support.
Wendy McCallum (27:05)
Yeah.
Yeah,
it's like, I feel like you learn this by experience a lot of the hard way. I remember hosting your treat once, an in person retreat, I think I probably had maybe eight women there. I happened to own a home at the time that was like a second home cottage kind of thing that I could use for this. so everyone was staying over. And I was, I just thought, well, you know, and for those of you who don't know this, my
Hana (27:18)
I'm like, yeah.
Wendy McCallum (27:37)
Like my early days as a coach were in food and nutrition and I published a couple cookbooks and so a lot of people like loved to learn about cooking from me. So I thought to myself, well, this is going to be great. I'll do some cooking demonstrations. I'll make all the food. I'll do all of this. going to profit margins are going to be great because I'm going to do all of, you know, all of this stuff. Holy cow. I mean, it was really great. I had a really, really amazing time. I came off it
high, high, high from the experience of hosting those women. had such a lovely weekend, but I was exhausted for about three weeks after that. And just the, the, all of the logistics of like, my gosh, it's time I've got to go make sure the soup is warm. I have to do so, you know, these are the things that an assistant can be incredibly helpful around. And also I don't recommend making all your own food, even though it was delicious. It was so much freaking work. Okay.
Hana (28:10)
Right.
myself.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, somebody else can do that for sure.
Wendy McCallum (28:32)
I've got
one last. no, I don't. I've got a couple, guess. Well, We. We haven't talked about.
Like that whole question of how do you get yourself to a place where you're ready to make that upfront investment when it comes to like committing to this? Cause I think that that's a stumbling block for a lot of people. I'll say that's one for me for sure. It's like getting to a place where I think, cause I've thought, you know, maybe I should be thinking about starting to design a retreat for all the coaches that I support. And I think a lot of them think it's a great idea, but I'm thinking, my gosh, so much work, so much like investment, so much.
Hana (28:46)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Wendy McCallum (29:06)
you know, upfront kind of risk and commitment in doing it? Am I ready for that? How do you get yourself from that place of like, I'm excited, I think this would be really cool to actually taking that leap.
Hana (29:18)
So I think there's like two parts, two part answer to this. You obviously want to make, have like good money hygiene and make a financial decision that makes sense with the money that you have. And you know, everybody's going to have a different amount of money because honestly, like you could have a weekend retreat that, you know, your deposit is like 500 bucks or something like that versus a $10,000 deposit, right? It's going to be different for everybody.
Wendy McCallum (29:43)
This way.
Hana (29:45)
finding something that's a stretch but doable for you, that's the practical answer. But I think the more important answer to this is that entrepreneurship calls us forward for courageous action and courageous leaps all the time. And this is just another one of those things. If it excites you and you want to do it, everybody who has hosted a retreat at some point had to take that leap. And I guarantee you, even if you had a million dollars in the bank versus ie a thousand dollars in the bank,
It is always scary to do something new. And so can you learn how to be with that discomfort in that liminal space where you don't know where you're going, that unknown? That's what makes you like an incredible entrepreneur, right? Because you keep showing up regardless of knowing whether your action is going to result in something that you desire it to. And one of the things that I say to...
My retreat guests, when they sign up for a retreat is like, your retreat starts the moment that you say yes to the retreat, because everything shifts as soon as you say yes. So I think this is really the same for you as a coach, as a retreat host, the moment that you put that deposit down, something changes. you have taken, you have, you have bet on yourself, right? And then with that comes all the things, the fears come up, the, you know,
Wendy McCallum (30:57)
Right, yep.
Hana (31:03)
imposter syndrome comes up, the doubts come up and you get to be with that then really feel empowered to show up from that place. And wow, like that just expanded you as like personally, as a coach, spiritually, all those things. You have just said yes to yourself,
Wendy McCallum (31:18)
that. I think that's the perfect way to end this. We could talk so much about this topic. feel like Hana
has so many other things to share, which is why, again, why I'm going to have her come in to do a masterclass in the BBB. But thank you so much for sharing that today. That's just been, yeah, I think so invaluable and helpful to coaches who are listening. And if you want to learn more about Hana and Hana's retreats and Hana's coaching business, you can find Hana at hanahein.com.
Hana (31:32)
Yeah, you're so welcome.
Wendy McCallum (31:44)
I'll put that in the show notes and then also follow Hana on Instagram where she is I am on a hein and that's he I am again It'll all be in the show notes, but please go and give Hana a follow. Thank you my friend. This has been great Bye everyone. See you next time
Hana (31:56)
Thank so much for having me.
