Wendy McCallum (01:30)
Hello, coach. Welcome back to The Coaching Edge. I'm your host, Wendy McCallum. Thanks for being here today. We're going to be talking about a subset of buyers in the trust recession, and that is skeptical buyers. These are people who have been burned before by the coaching industry. And I wanted to talk about how to sell to skeptical buyers today because
I've had a couple of experiences with very skeptical buyers in the last few weeks, and this has kind of been top of mind for me. You know what I mean by skeptical buyer, I think. This is when you get on a discovery call or what you might call a sales call, and within the first few minutes, you can feel the resistance from this person. Like they have been disappointed before. Sometimes I'll tell you outright. They might say something like, you're the third coach I've interviewed this week.
I've had people do that for sure with me many, many times. Or I'm meeting with two other coaches before I decide and they'll say that right at the beginning of the call. We haven't even started talking yet. So I know it's not about me. They're coming in defensive. They're coming in sort of like they're testing me and it can throw off the dynamic and the energy for the call. So it can really throw you off as a coach and
If you haven't experienced this yet, you will experience this. really do believe that this is like a subset of the buyer's, the new buyer mindset that's happening right now. It's almost an extreme, an extreme version of it. And I can tell you that I have it. I have a skeptical mindset when it comes to buying coaching and coaching support right now. So I get it. And I'm not here in any way to judge it or be critical of it. I just think it's a reality. And hopefully by the end of today's episode, you'll have
a new lens to look at it through and a new set of sort of strategies and ideas for how to negotiate it when you come up against it. So this is a bit of a continuation of the trust recession conversation that we started in episode 80, but it's from a different angle. So we're not just talking about how you show up and market in this new low trust environment that we're in, but also how you work with clients who
show up skeptical because of what they have experienced elsewhere. So people who have already, like I said, been burned or disappointed and show up on a coaching call. First of all, let's talk a little bit about why this skepticism is on the rise and why I think it's likely you're gonna come across this if you haven't already and why I've had several calls in the last few weeks that have felt like the buyer has, potential buyer has been more skeptical than usual. I think.
We have to acknowledge, as I've talked about in other episodes, that the coaching industry has exploded. And certainly since the pandemic, there's been this sort of onslaught, barrage of online offers, online courses and programs and coaching offers out there. And there's been a lot of noise and a lot of hype around that. I started coaching 15 years ago. There were no other coaches. I didn't even know another coach in my home city at that time. And now there are...
likely and I'm guessing in my city hundreds of coaches and I know a lot of coaches. So that's just my little geographical area I can tell you as a business coach for coaches that the industry has exploded and that's not a bad thing but it is the reality and it means that more people have heard about coaching they're aware of coaching and they're seeing all of these online offers and it's just far more likely that the person who's on the other end of the call has had an experience with coaching than
it would have been for me on a discovery call 10 years ago, right? Most, I think of our ideal clients are the type of people. So for me, my ideal client is somebody who's professional, they're smart, they're discerning. They're the type of people who have probably encountered the over-promising and the under-delivering, and probably also the high-pressure tactics. Like these are people who...
My ideal client, these are people who are good at advocating for themselves. They are interested in personal development. They have bought into the value of investing in themselves or in their businesses. And so these are people who've been on the other end of sales calls and probably lots of pushy sales calls over the years. They're not skeptical of you. And I think this is important to remember, you have to depersonalize it. I talked about this in another episode, how important it is to depersonalize the buyer decision.
It's also just important to depersonalize the buyer mindset if you're dealing with somebody who's skeptical. Because they're not skeptical of you, they're skeptical of coaching in general, or of being sold to again. And I get that. I get it. Me too. These are people who have paid for programs that didn't deliver. Been there, I've done that. My guess is you have too. You've probably paid for something in the last five or six years and it was not what you expected it to be and you felt a little bit ripped off.
or maybe a lot ripped off. People who felt pressured into buying something before they were ready to do it. So who fell for, felt pressured by some urgency or scarcity tactic. And then only to see that actually, ⁓ actually this program we decided to extend enrollment for. You didn't need to buy it, you know, two months ago because it's open. It's open again now or whatever it is.
I think buyers who have been burned by coaches who disappeared after the sale are also common. And I've had that experience where I've purchased a coaching program in this case that I'm thinking of was quite a high ticket coaching program. And my assumption from the conversations was that the person that I was interviewing with whose program it was, was going to be the head coach and was going to be at all of the sessions. But it turned out that she was actually only on about one third of the sessions and she had other coaches coaching for her in the other sessions.
It's not that it was a terrible experience, but it was not at all what I thought it was going to be. And I didn't like it. I didn't like that experience. So for all of those reasons, and also just because I think people are exhausted from being marketed to constantly, know, skepticism is on the rise and you're more likely to end up on a call with somebody who's skeptical. The good news in all of this is if you are an ethical
skilled coach who gets real results and delivers real value in your coaching and who shows up aligned with your professional values in a really authentic way, I actually think this environment works in your favor. I'm going to say in our favor because I would put myself in that category of coaches. Skeptical buyers are actually looking for somebody who feels different. And your maybe what you might characterize as kind of boring vanilla approach to sales is
likely exactly what they need right now. And I can tell you that this has been bearing, like this has been working for me. This has been the experience that I've had in the last year, is that my approach to sales, my non pushy, non salesy, non glitzy approach to sales has actually been working very, very well. And I think it will for you too. So let's talk about when you get on a call with somebody who is skeptical, what's really important and what can you do?
differently or more of. Well, the first thing you need to do, and this honestly is the case whether the person you're on the call with is seems skeptical or not, frankly, is you need to be able to articulate the value of the offer really clearly, the value of what it is you do really clearly. I've said this before, if you do not believe in your offer,
If you do not believe in the value of your coaching, you will not be able to sell it. It's critically important that you believe in the value of what you do. And there are different ways to build that confidence, all of which I've talked about in other episodes, but you need to get there before you try to sell it. You have to really believe this thing that I offer, this program that I've designed is amazing and the value is absolutely there. And I believe in this a hundred percent. You need to be able to say that and you have to be able to
articulate that in a really clear way to the person on the other side of the call. This isn't about being arrogant, this is about being grounded and clear and just really being certain in the value of what you do. So that's the first thing, you need to have that confidence. You also need to be able to articulate and clarify what makes you different because I think a skeptical buyer is looking for that. They're looking for you to distinguish yourself from other coaches in the space.
They want to know what they can get from you that they won't get somewhere else. And this isn't about being better. It's just about being really specific again. So for example, you know, if I was going to articulate that to somebody and it someone coming in and they were looking for, you know, help and making a big decision, maybe they're trying to decide whether to retire or to quit a job. I might say, I, here's what I do. I help people like you move from overwhelm and uncertainty and paralysis.
around this area of challenge to a place of confidence and clarity so that you can make the decision that's the right decision for you and move forward. Get unstuck and move forward. That's what I do. That is an articulation of transition coaching that does not involve a bunch of coach speak, right? Like the words that I use there move from overwhelm, uncertainty and paralysis. Everybody knows what that feels like.
to a place of clarity and confidence around this decision so that you can move forward without looking back and wishing that maybe you had done something different. So you can move forward without regret. That's really what I do. What I don't do is use language like, I help people transform their lives or I help you connect with your authentic self. Nobody knows what that means. And we have a tendency as coaches to use that kind of what I call coach speak a lot in our marketing. I'm gonna really suggest you check.
yourself for that, make sure you're not using that type of language. Get really clear on what it is you actually do. What is the tangible benefit of working with you? How are people feeling when they start with you and how are they feeling when they're done their coaching engagement with you? What is the transformation that you help to affect? And how can you articulate that in plain language that's going to make sense and resonate with people? That's what you need to get really good at. Your special sauce or what sets you apart needs to feel
true to you and makes sense to people hearing it. If I was to describe my special sauce as a coach, if I had to say like, this is, if you had to describe how I coach and who I am as a coach, I would say, I am very honest and authentic. You get what you see, always. I'm the same in every context, whether I'm coaching group, I'm hosting a podcast, I'm coaching one-on-one, this is it, this is who you get. I'm incredibly honest, but I'm also very kind.
And the other thing that I think is kind of the foundation of my coaching methodology and style is that I am very practical. My goal is, you know, working with mainly busy clients who are already feeling overwhelmed is not to add more stuff to their plate. It's to help them simplify their lives. I'm going to get to really understand what their real life is like so that I don't make any suggestions that are actually not helpful to them and just adding more stress and pressure to their plate. Now, remember,
When I say make suggestions, that's because I kind of wear two hats. I'm a coach and a consultant when it comes to burnout and overwhelm. So sometimes I am providing strategies or suggestions to people, which I get is not part of that pure coaching model, which I also do a lot of. So all of this to say, you really need to be able to clearly own your value with any...
potential client, but definitely with a skeptical client because they've heard all the generic promises. They are done with the coach speak. They are listening for something that sounds real and something that sounds valuable to them. They want to know what you do and why it works. So it's really important that you are able to do that.
I guess another little skill set in all of this is recognizing when you have a skeptical buyer on the other end of the call. And honestly, I find this actually quite easy to do now. The first clue always is if they tell you that they're interviewing a bunch of coaches, not that you shouldn't do that. And not that that necessarily means you're skeptical. ⁓ Some people, you know, just don't know enough about what they're looking for in a coach or maybe have received
a bunch of different recommendations. And I think it's cool to talk to more than one coach. I think that's a good idea. But you can tell by the way they say it to you, whether they're skeptical or not. And often people will say it to me and they'll basically say it in a really defensive way. Like, I still have two more coaches to interview after you. So basically like, don't get your hopes up. You know, it's that kind of messaging that you get. There's a bit of a like, prove it to me.
kind of energy that comes off of people sometimes. Oftentimes people who are skeptical ask a lot of questions about the process, about the nuts and bolts of the coaching. And we'll ask questions about like, so how long are the sessions and how does that work? And what happens if I have to cancel? And what if this doesn't work for me? That's another pretty obvious clue that someone's feeling a little skeptical. So what if this doesn't work for me? Do you have a money back guarantee? Like, am I committed to paying for the rest of the sessions?
⁓ People sometimes will ask me for my success rate and they want a percentage. That's like they want a statistical probability of success with coaching, which of course is nearly impossible to give. But I do have answers for that depending on the niche because I'm accustomed to that type of question. But that to me is a clue that maybe someone is feeling skeptical about the value of the coaching. So those are some signs that you're with maybe somebody who's a little bit more skeptical.
And when you start to pick up on that energy, you can respond accordingly. Now, the important thing is not to respond defensively. You can't personalize a buyer's mindset. You really can't because they have come by it honestly. And I think if you're being honest with yourself, you probably have some of this skepticism now as a buyer yourself. I certainly do, as I've said. So don't get rattled. Don't get defensive. This skepticism, it's not personal. It's
it's an opportunity for you to get curious, which I always think serves us as coaches, no matter what we're talking about. So get curious. And I'll often say, if someone says to me, like, I'm interviewing, I still have two more coaches to interview, I'll say, that's so great that you're doing your research. I love that you're meeting with several different coaches. Tell me, what are you hoping coaching will give you? In a perfect world, what would coaching look like for you? And I just give them a chance in their own words to articulate their expectations around coaching. And that allows me to meet them where they are.
in my response and to actually bring in, you know, some examples of my approach and coaching and how that might be a good fit for them. Or frankly, if it's not a good fit for them, if their expectations are not aligned with my coaching and what I deliver in coaching, I'm going to tell them that. And I think that that honesty is going to serve me as well in building trust. So there are some ways to identify these people, but honestly, it's a vibe.
I think is the best way to describe it. And you've probably had that experience already. And if you haven't, you will. I want to really spend a minute on the importance of letting your coaching do the selling. This is definitely part of what I would consider my sort of boring sales approach. It's like it is non salesy sales. And that I'm still very mindful of the fact that I am hoping to make a sale and I don't shy away from that.
I'm honest with myself about that. Obviously, I'd love to make a sale if the person's a good fit. I'd love to have that person come on as a client. But I'm also trying to show up in the least salesy way possible, honestly. And a big part of my approach is letting my actual coaching during the discovery call make the sale for me. So what I mean by that is I am looking for any opportunity in a call
to actually do some coaching. And I really encourage you to do the
Skeptical buyers have heard a lot of promises, but they probably haven't had a lot of actual coaching. So if you can give them a taste of what working with you feels like, it can build trust a lot faster than any sales pitch will. So I'm looking for things like limiting beliefs. I'm looking for behavior patterns that they're identifying or thought patterns they're identifying that aren't serving them and might be keeping them stuck.
and I'm not there to diagnose or fix, I'm just noticing them. And then I might call that out. might say, you know, I've noticed that twice already in this call, you've used this phrase. And then I might do a little coaching on that. So I might ask them, you know, how do you think that that perspective or lens is holding you back? ⁓ What might be possible for you if that wasn't true? Or what might be possible for you if, you know, that
we replace that with the opposite of that or whatever. And just have, create an opportunity for a little bit of coaching for them. Help them try on a different lens, even if it's just for a minute. This is not me telling them I'm a good coach, this is just me showing them what coaching can look like and how it feels. And they get a chance to feel heard, maybe get a little gentle push from me or challenge from me. And I think that type of an experience in a sales call is worth more than any.
pushy sales pitch or, you know, any other kind of tactic. So if you're not doing that yet, I really encourage you to start trying to include a moment of real value inside the conversation. It's not a full coaching, you know, call, obviously. It's just you just listening for something that's that sounds like it might be holding them back, frankly, or getting in the way and then naming it.
identifying it and then doing some real gentle coaching around what might be different for you or what might the value be for you of that not being true anymore, that not feeling true to you anymore. It can be really, really powerful and it can be really, really helpful when it comes to building trust with that client.
I guess the thing I really want to kind of end on is the power of the no pressure approach, the non salesy sales approach, the power of that, especially with these skeptical buyers. What I used to think was my weakness is actually my edge in selling. And I've been getting more and more confident around that for the last like six or seven years. As soon as I stopped
trying to fit myself into a mold that wasn't the right mold for me, which was really this kind of like, sales, patriarchal model of selling. As soon as I gave myself permission to never try to do that again, everything changed for me. As soon as I started showing up on calls, being super honest and authentic and saying at the beginning of the call, look, I hate sales calls as much as you do, so I just wanna let you know before we start, this isn't a sales call.
This is the expectation. I just want to set the expectation for the call. just an opportunity for us to get to know each other, to figure out whether I'm a good fit for you as a coach. If there is something that I think I could do to support you, I'm going to tell you about what that looks, what that would look like. And then you'll have the opportunity to ask me any questions that you have. If you know you're ready to proceed, we can get going. And if not, you can absolutely take a couple of days to think about it. No pressure. Saying that at the beginning of every call feels so good to me.
because it's aligned with how I would want to be addressed on a sales call. And I think it's respectful. It's honest. It's aligned. It's all of the things for me. So I can deliver it so easily because it feels good to me. And I think it's a breath of fresh air for skeptical buyers, especially. In fact, I have had them tell me that. I have had several people say to me, ⁓ man, that is so nice to hear.
I just got off a call with another coach. I did not feel that way, right? Or that is just so great. Nobody ever approaches these things this way. I'm so tired of being sold to, right? It really resonates with people. That reframe changes the energy of the entire call. And so I love getting that feedback. And the way that I look at discovery calls is it's not my job to convince anybody of anything. It is just my job.
to get to know them, to ask curious questions, to give them an opportunity to ask me questions, to see if we're a good fit, and if we are a good fit, to make an invitation to invite them to join me in some kind of a coaching container or offer, right? Whether that's one-on-one coaching or it's a program that I'm running. Look, I think you'd be a great fit for this. I'd be really excited to support you, and I'd love to you to join me in the X program, or I'd love to bring you on as a one-on-one client. How does that feel to you?
It's just an invitation. When you start thinking about it as an invitation instead of as an opportunity to try to convert somebody or sell somebody on something or convince somebody of something, it really changes the dynamic and it feels a lot more comfortable. So my job on a discovery call is just simply to extend the invitation if it feels like a good fit and to do that with clarity so that they know what it is I'm offering them. And...
What they decide to do after that is completely outside of my control. I can only control how I show up in a call. And one of the things that's critically important to me and that makes me feel successful on a call is if I show up with authenticity and with honesty and curiosity and clarity. So that has always been really it's always felt really good to me. And it has also worked really well.
when it comes to converting people because people can feel that on the other end. It's not my job to convince anybody to work with me. It's just my job to trust them to make the right decision after I make a clear offer to them or give them a clear invitation. And in my experience, this leads to a really high conversion rate. This has worked so well for me. I'll never do anything different. It feels really good to me. I don't dread discovery calls. I actually really like them, to be honest. I love getting to meet new people and getting to know them.
And if it turns out we're a great fit and we work together, awesome. But I'm not there to convince anybody of anything. And frankly, that's out of alignment with the general approach I have as a coach, which is based on this idea that all of my clients, everybody I meet, frankly, is naturally creative, resourceful, and whole. They are the most expert person on themselves. They know themselves better than anybody else does. And they know what is the right next step for them with more clarity than anybody else does. And so assuming that
That is the case with the person who's on the other end of a discovery call. Who am I to try to convince them? It's absolutely up to them. And I can say with confidence, I've been doing this for 15 years. I've been running a really busy practice for 15 years. I was figuring it out the other day when I was doing my spring cleaning. I think I've probably worked with thousands of people now. I'm not somebody who counts clients, but I'm consistently busy in my private practice and I have run
my gosh, so many groups and programs over the years. And I can tell you, like with confidence that the best coaching happens when both people are on board, when both people like feel like it's a good fit and when you're really aligned and like attracts like. And so if you're not showing up as yourself on a discovery call, then you run the risk of attracting the wrong person, frankly.
So showing up authentic and genuine and comfortable with clarity and confidence is, I think, the best way to have an effective sales call, discovery call, but also to meet the best way to meet a skeptical buyer. And as I said, I skeptical buyers are on the upswing. And I'm not really mad about that, to be honest. It just it makes total sense to me because that is the way I feel as well as a buyer in
in today's market. And I have respect for that. I have respect for people who are not making spontaneous decisions without a lot of thought, without research, and who aren't, you know, asking the right questions when it comes to whether an investment is actually going to bear the fruit for them, especially if they've been burned. So I hope that, you know, that that helped you.
I think the last piece of it is just learning how to own your brand. By brand, guess I really mean your sales approach. How to just own your non-salesy, non-pushy sales approach. Hopefully what I just said will help you to do that yourself. You can say that when you're on calls with people. I do all the time. I own my approach. I will say with confidence to people things like, this isn't a sales call. It's not going to be pushy. You'll have time to think about it.
Obviously, I've said that a couple times in this podcast. I say that right up front. But I also say things to people like, you know, I'm kind of known for over delivering and undervaluing, under pricing. So I can tell you also, and this has been said many times before, that I've never had anyone come back to me and say the value wasn't there. I've never had one person in 15 years come back and ask for their money back because they didn't get the value that they thought they were going to get from the coaching engagement or from the offer or program.
That's pretty cool to be able to say that. I feel pretty good about that, right? I also offer a money back guarantee and I tell people that like in the bigger coaching programs that I run, you have an opportunity to come in, try it out, come into a coaching call, see if it's a good fit for you. And if it's not, no problem. And there's a defined period within which you can do that. So I will say all of those things on a discovery call or in response to questions. And I think that all just adds to like,
credibility and trust that I have with those people and makes it more likely that I'm going to stand out. It's going to give me a bit of a competitive advantage because I'm honest and I'm the type of person they're looking for and you know not trying to sell to them. I'm just showing up with confidence and clarity amidst a lot of think hype and noise that's out there. Don't try to sound like other people.
Don't buy into and make the mistake I did of feeling like you have to follow a certain sales script or do things a certain way. You don't even need to do what I just said. You need to follow your own gut and intuition. You need to experiment with this. You need to see what feels good. And at the end of the day, you're just looking for like, where is my flow state with all of this? Where is the place that I feel just like most comfortable, most present in a call?
And what works for me? Pay attention to conversion rates. Pay attention to when you start trying to get jiggy with it, which I've done a couple of times. And make sure you cover this, this, this, this, and this in a discovery call. How often does that actually work? Or how often does that backfire? For me, ⁓ a scripted script does not work for any calls, but definitely not for sales calls. I follow a very loose structure, but I don't follow a script. And that works better for me.
You are your brand.
So if you're showing up trying to be somebody else, if you're copying somebody else, then you're not showing up in alignment with your brand. And as I said earlier, you run the risk of attracting the wrong people. You want to attract the right people and the right people are the people who are aligned with you and who you are and your coaching approach. So showing up as somebody else isn't gonna work for a bunch of reasons. First of all, you're not gonna deliver it because it's not gonna feel authentic. And secondly, you might attract
the wrong people. People will get the wrong idea. Pushy tactics might get quick sales. Sometimes these pushy, urgency, scarcity tactics work. But I've talked about in other podcast episodes about how they actually really don't work anymore in my experience. And they definitely don't build sustainable businesses. You're going to find that your brand is everything. Your personal and professional brand becomes everything because you are your business. If people start to associate you
with value and integrity and authenticity that goes so far. That is how you get clients who come back time and time again. Most of my clients, I would say the majority of my clients, more than 50 % end up working with me again in some capacity. I also would say that my word of mouth and referrals have become like a key piece of my marketing model. And frankly, since the beginning,
Word of mouth has been the way that I built this practice. And I still rely on word of mouth, even in the business coaching side of things. I rely on word of mouth. I rely on you, for example, sharing this podcast with your coach friends. I rely on the coaches who come into my programs telling their other coach friends what an amazing experience it was to work with me and how much value there was in that program. And the same thing goes in my one-on-one practice. So you got to show up as yourself. You got to show up, you know, and not...
be worried that you're not enough or that it's boring. I think boring is actually better in the long run. think boring, and I don't mean like actually boring. I'm not a boring person, but I do adhere to kind of a very straightforward approach to business and definitely to marketing and sales. And it's worked really, really well for me. And I think it's gonna work really well for you too because your trust
and reputation is something that compounds, it builds over time. It's not something that you can establish really quickly. You just need to stay consistent with it. And the good news is, is that for most of us, this approach feels a million times better. So permission granted, be yourself, experiment with some of the things I've talked about on this episode, and pay attention to the buyers that are showing up, potential buyers that are showing up on discovery calls for you. Are you noticing an increased amount of skepticism?
And how do some of these little strategies that I've shared today help you in calls with those people? And how does it feel?
Anyway, that's it for today. Thank you for listening. As always, if you have ideas for new episodes, send them my way. ⁓ I love hearing from you always. I love the fact that there are right now so many people listening to this podcast episode who I've never met. I don't know your names. I don't know anything about you. I would love to know you. Send me a note, wendy at wendymcallum.com or reach out on Instagram at Wendy McCallum Coach. Have a great week, everybody. Bye.
